WNT v Japan, June 5, 2016, pre/pbp/post

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by Semblance17, Jun 4, 2016.

  1. Semblance17

    Semblance17 Member+

    United States
    Apr 27, 2013
    Lighthouse Point, FL
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  2. BrooklynSoccer

    BrooklynSoccer Member+

    Jan 22, 2008
  3. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Well that's what I meant by individual flair. Ur still going to get those type of goals but in addition to the attempts created by the system. No system accounts for all the goals scored it just makes a framework to operate in. Take the first Japan friendly. The first goal scored was outside the Japanese system but Iwabuchi still had the freedom to take it. The other two goals were straight out of the standard Japanese attack. But as they move players in and out of the match, the attack goes on the same way because the parts r interchangeable.

    Now yes players like the ones u named dont come around every year but the Germans used the same formation and tactics with or without Prinz. U can certainly argue it worked better with her but they didnt scrap the system when she retired. Part of the reason no one stepped up to replace Morgan is the team was geared to play to Wambach and Morgan's strengths. I would argue that if u fine tuned the attack to play to Press' strengths, and then thru Morgan in there to play the same way, she wouldnt do very well. This is why I think Dunn is the best replacement for Morgan and Press is the best replacement for Lloyd.
     
  4. Semblance17

    Semblance17 Member+

    United States
    Apr 27, 2013
    Lighthouse Point, FL
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Like they care about bad PR.
     
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  5. BrooklynSoccer

    BrooklynSoccer Member+

    Jan 22, 2008
    haha...right?
    trails are played out in the public eye.
     
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  6. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    OK based on Japan here is the lineup Id like to see tossed out there using the current formation to counter fast teams like France

    Pugh..................Morgan................Dunn
    .................Heath..............Press
    .............................Brian
    Klingenberg-Sauerbrunn-Johnston-O'Hara
     
  7. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    sounds good.

    but not really. the argument can be just as strong for a coach to recognize when you have a special player and build a playing style to win with her. abby was a special player.

    the challenge is then for the coach to change the style once that player is gone. that's what jill appears to be doing now.
     
  8. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I don't get the attacks on Morgan either, she's shown over & over again that's simply the best over all forward in the world. I feel it's Pugh that's the one that's a bit overrated to start over Dunn & Press. If you look vs the big teams;

    US/JA, first game Pugh starts turns into a 3-3 tie, 2nd game Pugh don't play, and it's an easy win for the US

    SBC; when Pugh's in, it's 0-0. US wins after Pugh comes out

    Pugh stays in the whole game vs France, gets an assist, but only in the 88th minute mark. By far the US poorest showing in the SBC

    Pugh don't start vs Germany. the US easily has it's best first half of the SBC, scoring two goals.

    Not saying there's no place for Pugh, but I rather see Dunn & Press start over her
     
  9. sitruc

    sitruc Member+

    Jul 25, 2006
    Virginia
    There were no attacks.
     
  10. skybolt

    skybolt Member

    Dec 16, 2011
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    I think they're talking about social media in general.
     
  11. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Pugh seems a more effective player on the left than on the right. If Ellis is going to play Pugh on the right as she did against France then I just as soon have Dunn but on the left Id rather have Pugh. I like Press in the middle either at forward or CAM...I wouldnt start her wide.
     
  12. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    That works if a player retires, but if a player gets injured it's much harder to change the style for a short period until ur star returns.
     
  13. jackdoggy

    jackdoggy Member+

    May 16, 2014
    Big D
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wonderful trip, great game.
    I spoke at length to a USSoccer official (RE: scheduled start times) and she stated unabashedly do not pay any attention to what USSoccer says, prints, emails, posts, tweets; rather, consult with Dish/Direct TV programming guides and ESpin and Fox websites for correct start times.....Ooooooooooooooooo.K.

    Soooooooo post-match I dragged my wet, tired, slightly intoxicated bones out to the Cleveland Airport for my flight. Was wearing my new Crystal jersey as I waited my turn in the TSA PreCheck line. Just about ready to walk up and present the documents when this female voice behind me asks - What did you think of the game? I slowly turned and started to reply "the mid-field played wwwwwwww" and realized I was face to face with Jill Ellis. Holy moly still can't believe it. Oooooh but it gets better, my flight was delayed by 2 hours. What do Becky, Heather, Hope, Alex and Ashlyn have in common? - - They all were seen talking to your humble poster at the airport on Sunday. Needless to say, I will remember June 5, 2016 for a long time.
     
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  14. BrooklynSoccer

    BrooklynSoccer Member+

    Jan 22, 2008

    this is maybe the best post ever on BigSoccer, it needs a gold frame to live on the upper left corner of this site.
    I can't remember when i last laughed o'loud reading a post here....if ever..? ....what do becky, heather, hope...all have in common! mwahaha. did u get a pic with crystal???
     
  15. Semblance17

    Semblance17 Member+

    United States
    Apr 27, 2013
    Lighthouse Point, FL
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Would you be interested in selling some of that extra luck you seem to have on your hands?
     
  16. skybolt

    skybolt Member

    Dec 16, 2011
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    I agree with most of your post except for the last part. As I mentioned in my previous post, I don't believe that the US changed their tactics to fit Morgan's style of play. She basically ran onto balls, out-muscled the defender and made something out of nothing. It's not like she was getting these perfect passes in front of goal to tap in. She had to fight for every opportunity she got.

    I also don't agree that if the US attacking style was changed to fit Dunn and Press's styles then all of a sudden these 2 players will be scoring 5 goals in 4 matches against the likes of France, Germany and Japan. It will certainly help, but I have to see a lot more from those 2 before I change the way the team plays in the hopes they can mimic Lloyd, Morgan and Wambach's success against strong opponents. Don't get me wrong, I think someone with Christen's technical abilities has the potential to be a top notch scorer against strong opponents, but we all know it takes more than just technical skills to combat against pressure situations.

    I've never been athletic, but played a lot of competitive chess in HG and college. Whenever I played against a slightly weaker opponent, I would always have the confidence to pull off some razzle dazzle moves to make their heads spin. However, as soon I was matched up against a slightly stronger opponent
    Better yet, can we get some tidbits from the conversation. Were some chatty, shy, etc? :)
     
  17. CoachJon

    CoachJon Member+

    Feb 1, 2006
    Rochester, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Someone said 'Luck is the residue of design;'--- I would add 'and effort.' Someone else said:

    2016 WILL BE GLORIOUS!
     
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  18. skybolt

    skybolt Member

    Dec 16, 2011
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    I agree with mostly everything you said except for the last part. Just because certain players have the technical abilities to produce in critical situations, it doesn't necessarily mean they will, even if the system is changed to gear towards their style of play. Look at someone like A-Rod, I bet if she had a similar shot to the one she shank'd against China in the WC, she would've buried it in the NWSL. Same thing with Press against Japan. I'm not sure what it is, but some players seem to rise to the challenge even if the opposition starts tightening the screws on the defensive end.

    I'm not much of an athlete, but I did play competitive chess when I was in HS and college. Whenever I faced opponents slightly weaker than me I'd always pull out these razzle dazzle moves to make their heads spin. However, as soon as I faced a slightly stronger opponent who played great defense, I'd succumb to the pressure and begin making stupid, predictable moves. I'd usually come close but practically lose every single game. What was surprising is that when the players slightly weaker than me played these same opponents, they'd at least win 3 out 10 matches. Part of the reason was that they didn't let the pressure get to them and relished the chance to play a tougher opponent.

    Looking at the USWNT I just feel with some players (Lloyd, Morgan, Klingenberg, Solo, Rapinoe), the tougher the opponent the more focused they become, while others perform better when faced with less pressure. I certainly understand changing styles or letting players play their natural positions, but soccer is a simple sport, if you find yourself in front of the net with a chance to score, you have to score. If Draymond Green drives in for a layup and misses it, should he blame the system since in that particular game he was playing the small forward position instead of power forward?

    Let's put it another way, I bet if the system was changed to gear more towards Press and Dunn and the USWNT was facing Germany in the Olympic final match, I guarantee that 99% of posters would still chose Morgan, Solo and Lloyd to start that match, especially if $100,000 and their livelihood was at stake. You go into battle with your warriors until the rest of the troops rise to the challenge as well.
     
  19. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    #169 kernel_thai, Jun 8, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2016
    Well I wasnt trying to say Dunn or Press equals Morgan but who knows what will pop out when I start typing. What I was trying to say is if there were more of a standard framework transition would be easier from player to player. Dunn plays that similar cat and mouse game as Morgan but the Press game is totally different so if u have to throw Press in for Morgan for a few matches the midfield has to deal with totally different service to get her the ball where she wants it.

    To be fair the lack of a standard system also makes the US tougher to defend because u have to defend more on tendencies than a system but the original point under discussion was why Press and Leroux didnt just step in and seamlessly replace Morgan and I still think part of that is that US tailors to a forwards strength instead fitting forwards into a system so there is a learning curve. Then throw in the fact that they greatly under estimated how long Morgan would be out so there was probably a reluctance to change the whole team just for a short period.
     
  20. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Next time u and Ellis decide to hang let me know...I have a list of about 150 questions u can try and pin her down on for me. :)
     
  21. BlitzSpiele

    BlitzSpiele Member

    Sep 7, 2007
    Pics or it didn't happen. :)
     
  22. Semblance17

    Semblance17 Member+

    United States
    Apr 27, 2013
    Lighthouse Point, FL
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well I don't know how I could "design" or "effort" my way into that particular type of luck without player/team stalking. (Disclaimer: I'm not going to go player/team stalking.)
     
  23. Gilmoy

    Gilmoy Member+

    Jun 14, 2005
    Pullman, Washington
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Rf6 :D

    Not just you. Over on chessgames.com, we sporadically see huge Opens where weekenders and kids randomly pair up vs not-quite-super GMs, and they balk in similar ways: generally by a lack of confidence and blood-thirstiness. Rarely we see the converse: the amateur dictates the action, the GM is too passive and only reacts (or tries one deep idea that doesn't work), and an upset happens.

    I've never tried to coach a team of kids past that stage, so I dunno what the approach would be. But I suspect the general solution (in both soccer and chess :laugh:) is:
    • Train/equip basic skill/knowledge past the blunder stage (i.e. don't fall into known book traps)
      • soccer: trap without clang; pass accurately; move; lift head
      • chess: intensively study a few openings to midgame; play through ~few thousand midgames
    • Practice/encourage aggression, e.g. via drills
      • soccer: drive and cross; cut and pass (i.e. get used to going to goal)
      • chess: form a plan (reconfiguration of pieces)? Then you don't have to re-plan from scratch each move.
    • More practice. Solve puzzles, study high-level games, chunk patterns from them, etc. It works for pianists, Scripps Howard Spelling Bee, drone pilots, the Polgar sisters, and athletes at all levels.
      • Here at Washington State, our mfb team gets QB recruits who grew up playing the NCAA Football video game ... as Mike Leach's Texas Tech teams! And -- it works, they already know about half of the offense he still runs today :ROFLMAO:
    The greatest calming influence is probably knowledge from study or experience. If you know that, in this kind of situation, going backward is meek and too slow, while going forward is sharp and active, then you can reach the stage where playing sharply is actually reassuring. Study tends to be more efficient than experience because you benefit from crowdsolving by centuries' worth of pros, whereas experience is backward: it gives you the exams up-front and the lessons afterward.
     
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  24. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
     
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  25. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Two of my fav players have their goals count...is FIFA on the road to sanity?
     
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