Willi Schulz is a player that you won't find many tributes on the web. As I recently watched a 1962 friendly between Germany vs Uruguay I found myself impressed by his work as a defensive midfield "destroyer". Note that this is WM-System in the early 1960s which was still used by the German NT at that time and one of the last occasions this classic tactical system would be deployed on that level. So 'officially' we see Schulz (#4 shirt) acting as a right half back but he is all over the pitch and can't be pinned down to a tactical position that would fit in with old WM-tactical terms like "right half" - best description is central defensive midfielder. By the mid-1960s Willi Schulz had emerged into a sweeper in the 4-2-4 system. Willi Schulz - a no-nonsense ball winner with hardly any subtlety! (this video has no sound!)
The shirt numbers are the usual in a 4-2-4 formation, according uruguayan way to ordering players, 2 & 3 for centrebacks and 4 & 6 for side defenders. I guess some places for P.Cubilla, Gonzalez and Majewski, but the better roles looked those, according their wiki. If I'm not mistaken, Troche played at RB those years. Still I marked with a ? my doubtful picks. Something similar for Germany. I hope, they're Ok
I have compiled all shirt numbers worn by German NT players between 1954 and 1989 (1950-53 will follow) and I am also trying to get as many shirt numbers from the opposition team for these years. It is fairly easy during the 1950s because in all lineups players were simply listed from 1-11 regardless of their actual role on the pitch. With more and more teams switching to 4-2-4 around 1960 it became harder deducting shirt numbers based on lineups. The German press lined-up the Uruguayans according to 1-11 as you can see in the following picture. They might have lined them up acording to actual tactical role but I doubt Uruguay played that formation in 1962. By the way your German shirt numbers are all correct!
Hi @Gregoriak , acoording the report, I guess the numbers alongside the players are (years old, caps). Both teams are lined up in a Pyramid ordering, unless I didn't notice, there's nothing more about the real shirt numbers. In german case, Schnellinger listed at RB. That's ok? For Uruguay, In a "european ordering" the two backs (this correct my Majewski estimation) had been playing as Side backs in a back three or back four line. The latter was the case for Uruguay. The three halves (Gonzalez, Goncalves and P.Cubilla) are the expected Centrebacks and Defensive Midfielder. In the uruguayan 4-2-4, the Centre Half remained as Midfielder, this is for Tito Goncalves. The #/8 and #10 are expected Ofensive Mids, but in the 4-2-4, one of them acted as Spearhead or Ponta de Lança, I guess this is the case for Hector "Lito" Silva. It happens that the uruguayan transition from the Back-two to a Back-four was very unorthodox. The Pyramid fullbacks (2 and 3) remained at the centre, meanwhile the Wing halves (4 and 6) were deployed as Lateral Defenders, and the Pyramid Centrehalf remained as Defensive Midfielder. This way, Uruguay changed the shirt numbers, without a WM transition, from: Pyramid: 1 - 2,3 - 4,5,6 - 7,8,9,10,11 Back 4: 1 - 4,2,3,6 - 5,8,10 - 7,9,11 So, I guess, that in an uruguayan report (if able to check), they should listed Uruguay XI (numbering from 1 to 11), something like this: Sosa - Gonzalez, P.Cubilla - Troche, Goncalves, Majewsk -; L.Cubilla, Silva, Cabrera, Rocha, Escalada. I hope, my explanation wasn't confused.
Thanks for the explanation! Actually it was sense-making to withdraw the wing halves as lateral defenders and to keep the full backs as central defenders. Now those Uruguayan shirt numbers you provided do make better sense to me! I have added them to my chapter on Germany's 1962 NT games (which is not yet finished). http://www.historical-lineups.com/germany/national-team/1962-2.html Schnellinger was indeed playing as right-back in that game, as the left-footed Kurbjuhn was playing as left-back.
The way, Uruguay played the Pyramid, was very close to Swiss Verrou, for an european eye. Two parallel pathways to reach a similar tactic. I didn't checked the real shirt numbers with the "on paper" numbering in the match. But, I identified both wingers, the small and fatty, Luis Cubilla on the right and the black player, Escalada on the left. Also the tallest players, circa 1.85m, in the middle, Goncalves as DM and Rocha as playmaker.
@msioux75 Could you have a look at Chile's lineup in these two friendlies and suggest the shirt numbers? 23.03.1960: Germany v Chile 2-1 (in Stuttgart) (F) Referee: Dienst (Switzerland), attendance: 72,500 German roster: GK: Tilkowski, Ewert DF: Erhardt, Wilden, Stollenwerk, Schnellinger HB: Benthaus, Sundermann, Willi Schulz, Szymaniak FW: Rahn, Haller, Seeler, Schütz, Alfred Schmidt, Brülls, Hornig Germany: 1 Tilkowski – 2 Stollenwerk, 5 Erhardt (c) (Wilden), 3 Schnellinger – 4 Benthaus, 6 Sundermann – 8 Haller, 10 A.Schmidt (70. Schütz) – 7 Rahn, 9 Seeler, 11 Brülls Chile: Coloma – Eyzaguirre, R.Sanchez, Navarro – Luco, Rodriguez – Fouilloux, L.Sanchez (83 M.Soto) – Moreno, J.Soto (85. Tobar), Musso Scorers: 0-1 J.Soto (25.), 1-1 Haller (72.), 2-1 Seeler (75.) 26.03.1961: Chile v Germany 3-1 (in Santiago de Chile) (F) Referee: Praddaude (Argentina), attendance: 60,000 German roster: GK: Tilkowski, Schnoor DF: Wilden, Lutz, Erhardt HB: Szymaniak, Werner, Giesemann FW: Kress, Seeler, Brülls, Kurt Schulz, Herrmann, Gert Dörfel Chile: Escuti – Eyzaguirre, R.Sanchez, Rojas, Navarro – Contreras, Toro – Betta (60. Moren), Soto, L.Sanchez, Ramirez Germany: 1 Tilkowski – 2 Lutz, 5 Wilden, 3 Erhardt (c) – 4 Giesemann (65. Werner), 6 Szymaniak – 8 Brülls, 10 Herrmann – 7 Kress, 9 Seeler, 11 G.Dörfel Scorers: 1-0 L.Sanchez (10.), 1-1 Herrmann (13.), 2-1 L.Sanchez (39.), 3-1 Rojas (78.)
Hi, Gregoriak. The transition in Chile from Pyramid to a back-4 was similar to Argentine/Brazilian transitions, which was different to the europeans. First step, one of the three halves (the most defensive wing half) dropped to the backline as Side Back with the two full-backs situating accordingly. Second step, one of the two remaining halves (ex-wing half) dropped as Fourth Defender at the center. So, at the end, the old pyramid centrehalf in the 2-3-5 remained as Central Midfielder in a 4-3-3 formation, with the #5 or #6. I'll check some reports and would ask to a chilean expert for a better answer. PS: I don't know that Erhardt could play as Side Back and Brülls could play as Inside Forward, too.
I checked two sources: La Roja de Todos by Edgardo Marin, 1985 Historia de la Selección de Chile by Don Balón, 1998 1960 match (att.70,000) - Chile lined up a 4-2-4 Raúl Coloma - Luis Eyzaguirre, Jorge Luco, Raúl Sánchez, Sergio Navarro - Hernán Rodríguez, Leonel Sánchez - Mario Moreno, Braulio Musso, Juan Soto, Alberto Fouilloux Mario Soto x L.Sánchez; Armando Tobar x J.Soto One source placed Musso as Right Winger and Moreno as Inside Forward. Fouilloux and Leonel Sánchez could played as LW or IL during their career. 1961 match (att.47,816) - Chile lined up a 4-2-4 Misael Escuti - L.Eyzaguirre, Carlos Contreras, R.Sánchez, S.Navarro - Eladio Rojas, Jorge Toro - Rómulo Betta, J.Soto, L.Sánchez, Jaime Ramírez Moreno x Betta One source placed J.Ramírez as LW and L.Sánchez as IL.
Cisarro, a knowledgeable chilean poster at Xtratime/ForosPeru, helped me with the matches, crossing info with contemporary chilean magazine Estadio. 1960 match (Cisarro's diagram) Fouilloux with nº8. "Shirt numbers aren't described at Estadio, but looking the photos, they seems to follow the chilean way to numbering players Chile seems to played a sort of WM mixed with 4-2-4, playing a counter attacking style. Rodriguez (an original Box-to-Box left mid) playing as DM. The wingers dropped back, especially the LW. This way, Chile looked unbalanced with many players playing in the left side".
According Estadio and Cisarro's diagram, Chile played this way, the next game. 1961 - Chile vs W.Germany This is a traditional 4-2-4, in which Chile found the duo Rojas-Toro that shined at the WC 1962, especially, Jorge Toro, named by some the MotM.
Erhardt started out as a full back and was only converted to stopper right ahead of the 1958 World Cup. Occasionally he was still used as a full back although his main role remained that of stopper until the end of his career. Brülls by nature was more of an inside forward, not a winger, but he was often used as a winger, often on the left wing which was not optimal as he was right-footed and his crossing from the left was mediocre.
Hi Gregoriak, I hope it works now: Chile vs Germany (1960) Chile tried to use a 4-3-3 scheme. But Leonel Sánchez (10) and Hernán Rodríguez (6) were more comfortable playing on the left zone, leaving an unbalanced midfield. So the right winger (Mario Moreno) was forced to withdraw and fill that abandoned zone of the midfield, staying Soto (9) and Fouillioux (8) as spearheads. Chile vs Germany (1961) This was a traditional 4-2-4 which became a 4-3-3 when Jaime Ramírez (11) collaborated with the midfielders (like Zagallo in the WC 1958).
Musso was a right winger (not as skillfull as Mario Moreno or Pedro Araya) but his ductility allowed him alternate as attacking, box-to-box and defensive midfielder too, finishing his career as right centre-back. He wasn't a brilliant player in any of his roles but he did a very efficient job in all of them.
Oh! I didn't notice this before: Raúl Sánchez wasn't playing for Ferrobádminton but Santiago Wanderers, a Chilean team based in the city of Valparaíso. Luis Eyzaguirre wasn't player for Universidad Católica but Universidad de Chile (like Navarro, Leonel Sánchez and Musso). And again... The club of Raúl Sánchez wasn't Valparaíso but Santiago Wanderers (based in the city of Valparaíso). Leonel Sánchez signed for Colo-Colo in 1970, he played for Universidad de Chile since 1953 to 1969.