Will we have a crowd advantage in Brazil?

Yeah, and most chants in their stadiums use the tunes of 80s American pop music.

 

I think is naive to think South America likes or supports USA because of their pop culture. Let's face it, in football, when a country faces each other, the fans behavior towards a team is more about politics and foreign policy they are thinking about (other than football itself, of course). So, having that in mind I see them cheering for the US when they are the underdogs, and not so much when they play against Ghana.

Anyway, I felt more drawn to the discussion because of the South America loving America pop culture and therefore supporting them argument... A country (much less a whole continent) doesn't like, care, love, or hate another in an unidimensional way. What's USA? TV series and Hollywood movies? Walt Whitman, Bob Dylan and Martin Luther King? George W. Bush, the IMF and the CIA?

 

Well, we sure do love us some of that America's coolness appeal then... (?)

 

I think maybe there might be a misunderstanding here. I don't believe that South Americans generally like or support the United States national soccer team. I was only pushing back against the idea that the entire world hates Americans and that this hatred drives everyone to hate the United States national team and cheer against them, a suggestion that isn't supported by any actual evidence in soccer stadia. My general impression is that most of the world is fairly indifferent to the United States national team and doesn't really care how well they do any more than we care how well the Russian, Belgian, and Ivory Coast teams do.

That said, I think we can all agree with you that there is not and cannot be a unidimensional relationship between "South America" and "the United States", because we are referring to a lot of different aspects of a lot of different people coming from a lot of different cultures. After all, is this conversation even relevant or meaningful for someone who only speaks Quechua and doesn't own a TV?

 

And if you read my post, then you see i agree with you. Nothing is that simple.

 

What? I give you the French, but apart from that? The US was seen as one of the most important friends (culturally and politically) of Germany until you went all Orwell on us.

 

I understand, your comment was on relation with the guy saying everyone hates you on a general basis and therefore, will want you to lose or "cheer" against you. Of course i don't agree with that.

But what I'm trying to say, and want to make this point clear, is that football is different than most sports when it comes to countries facing each other and fans (neutrals, in this case) supporting one or other team. Most of the world is indifferent to the US football team, that i completely agree. But when a country has so much influence (economic, political, cultural) on the rest of the world it shows, and football in particular (at least in SA, but i know in Europe too) has always been a good place to show political feelings or sentiments... I made that argument because i felt it more important than "pop culture" in relation to football and fan behavior. But still, i stand by what i said, not only politics come into part, football itself does, so most probably they'll want the powers of Germany and Portugal to lose to the underdogs and Ghana may have the slight advantage with the crowd.

Perhaps it would have been interesting to see what would the crowd had done if they'd put US in a group with Cuba, Irán and North Korea... But meh... i just remembered this was the World Cup, not a sociological test field.

Needless to say I agree with the last part.​

 

She's English.

 

I agree with your premise that Ghana will be heavily favored by the crowd over the USA. That said, you are leaving out something very important: This is a freakin' World Cup.

Once again, every world cup match I have ever seen is populated by fans who care about the game more than even cultural identities or rivalries. The travelling supporters will always sing for their sides, but neutral spectators, even those heavily biased before kick off for one reason or another, always follow the flow of the game. Period.

A good example--At the U20 world cup in Canada, we went in against Poland and the crowd was extraordinarily hostile. Every US touch rained with whistles and boos. Of course, we all know what the US did against Poland, and yes, by the end of the match, those same neutral fans, who were dissing the United States as loudly as possible, were all cheering for the US. By minute 80, every touch we had brought cheers. What a difference a game makes, huh?

So no, I don't agree entirely with your assessment that even if the US is the little engine that could, we'd still be reviled against Ghana. Even a partisan Pro-Ghana Brazilian crowd will turn on the Black Stars like Lannisters if they start hacking and diving while the US scores multiple, beautiful goals. Simply put, if the US can put two unanswered goals in the first half against Ghana, we kill that crowd and any preconceptions they had before kickoff.

Of course, to concede to you, I find that the US lighting up Ghana with xenon headlights a terrifically unlikely prospect. We will probably play the game very close and more than likely, the US may be the team that has to cynically edge out the result, making that Pro-Ghana crowd obnoxiously loud throughout the match. Then again, I've seen strange stuff in every World Cup, and while the odds of Ghana busting out a big diarrhea dump in the bed against us Yanks is as remote as the planet Neptune, a Brazilian crowd sticking by them to the bitter end in that aforementioned scenario would be even more remote.

 

That's fair. I certainly agree that political considerations are very important to soccer fandom (and more specifically, that the recent surveillance revelations may drive at least some fans to cheer against the US). I also agree that neutral fans will often cheer for an underdog. So those could be considerations in upcoming World Cup matches, sure.

 

Yep, this is exactly what I've always seen. Neutral fans, in any sport, follow the flow of the game and it doesn't take much for them to change who they're supporting. Something as simple as a bad referee decision can make a neutral fan pull for the other team, since they feel that an injustice needs to be corrected. If I'm remembering correctly, that's exactly what happened with the women's team in 2011 against Brazil, with the crowd suddenly turning pro-USA.

I think the real situation with neutral fans gets forgotten a lot since we typically only see games where there are only 2 sets of supporters, with 1 louder than the other. It's really only in the world cup where the neutral fans make up such a large portion of the crowd.

Between the 4 teams, I'm not sure that any of them are particularly hated enough by Brazilians/neutrals to completely make the crowd lean one way over the other pre-match. So it should come down to what happens in the games. However, I wouldn't be surprised to see crowds rooting for the upset (USA/Ghana over Germany/Portugal) and I think our American presence could help sway some neutrals. Not enough to make a massive difference, but we should definitely have a larger supporter's group there than the other 3 teams so it'll help.

 

That tells you how much I care about current pop culture.

One thing I know for sure: Argentina is going to have the most people cheering _against_ them than any other team.

 

Emma Watson isn't American? Are you sure?


(I am obviously joking)

 

Sure, people everywhere love American pop culture and Coca-Cola (often even more than we do), as much as they love to deride us for the same. Very often, these very same people dislike "America" and "Americans" to varying degrees, and it's not all down to politics, as much as they usually say it is.

The simple truth, of course, is that America means a bazillion different things to probably around 6 of the 7 billion people on earth.

 

I remember in October and November in 2001 a bunch of Berliners lecturing me on the very same thing, except substituting Afghanistan for the NSA. And in 2003, substituting Iraq. And in 2005, substituting the re-election of Bush. And so forth.

The goings-on of America the nation and Americans are broadcast pretty far and wide. People that want to like or dislike us are always going to be able to find a ton of reasons to do so.

 

Totally.

There is the .1%, though, that is totally and completely prejudiced by that American label who will never see any nuance past it, though, and most people who have spent considerable time (as in years) abroad will know what I'm talking about. But most of their compatriots will know and readily agree that such people are simply prejudiced.

 

Exactamundo. We air all of our dirty laundry except most of the time we are so quick to defend it when it comes under attack from someone. Does anyone know dirty laundry about Slovakia or Finland? Probably not. But they know all about our horrible healthcare system.

 

In the 1995 Copa America I remember the U.S. team getting a lot of support from the local fans. Probably because it was held in Uruguay and we were always facing their rivals.

But this summer since we're not facing any South American sides -- at least not in the group -- it's hard to imagine things working out the same way.

 

There was a similar thread like this about a month ago with the same general theme "oh no, the crowd is going to hate us during our games for reason X Y Z..." Couple of items:

1) The majority of fans will be neutral Brazilians - who want to see a good game. Most will be excited to see Ronaldo, or the German stars, but more than anything else they will applaud excellent play. US gained a lot of fans during the last WC for their effort and never-say-die attitude. I remember watching Brazilian talking heads on Globo saying how much they appreciated the US play in South Africa, that the US got screwed by the refereeing, etc.
2) If you want to compare supporters/PMA tickets, US will bring more die-hards to the game than Ghana or Portugal, probably even more than Germany. US fans have oversubscribed their allocation and will be there in numbers.
3) Brazilians do not hate the US team, nor do they even consider us a rival...so no, they won't boo the national anthem, nor will they support Ghana because of slavery 200 years ago. We're not going into Azteca.

Most likely it will be a neutral to pro-US crowd at most matches, assuming the US brings its lunchpail style, works hard, and plays well. Now if the US packs it in and plays hoofball, neutral fans will give the US less support.

 

Serious question: which South American sides aren't Uruguay's rivals?