Will Messi Ever win a tournament with the Argentina NT?

Discussion in 'BigSoccer Polls' started by Guigs, Jul 4, 2015.

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Will Messi Ever win a tournament with the Argentina NT?

  1. Yes

    17 vote(s)
    29.3%
  2. No

    33 vote(s)
    56.9%
  3. Doesn't matter

    6 vote(s)
    10.3%
  4. He needs a better team in order to win with the NT

    2 vote(s)
    3.4%
  1. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    In regards to Messi not being able to win a single tournament with the all powerful Argentinean NT. Do you think Messi can turn this around and get a tournament win for his National Team which hasn't won anything since 1993? Or will the drought continue for another 20 years?
     
  2. John Baldessari

    Mar 21, 2015
    I think he will. He has 2016 Copa America, 2018 World Cup, 2019 CA.
     
  3. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Country:
    Argentina
    [​IMG]

    But why are you doing this @Guigs? Do you revel in the pain of losing finals consecutive years?
     
  4. Rana catesbeiana

    Mar 11, 2008
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Who knows. But win or lose, Messi is one piece of the puzzle. A lot can happen, and one is always against the odds to win any knock-out tournament. Either way, they've been very strong lately, and deserve a lot of credit, even if silvers might feel painful to them and their supporters.

    Messi will be 32 in the next World Cup, so he's perfectly fine by his age to be a starter, but when it comes to winning the title, the team decides (just like it did in CA now and in WC 2014). They have to keep doing the things right they do right now, replace the guys that are out, and young guys need to step up. And of course they need to be lucky.

    One thing I would say is they would benefit from having a top coach, maybe someone better than Tata. I'm not sure if Simeone would want the job, but I reckon he'd suit well. And I'm also not saying that with their current coach they can't win. One kick this or that way, and they'd have WC and CA now, and had it gone their way, the coaches would've looked brilliant without doing anything differently. I guess it's the same with Messi: he might look like a player who is not capable of winning a major NT tourney (which is of course true), but that image depends on him only so much. It's a team sport. FWIW, for the same reason, it seems to me absurd to state that the reason Barca has won trophies is Messi: it's a team sport there as well, even if he is the best player of both teams.
     
    BocaFan repped this.
  5. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    lol Alexis' penalty shot was still between the goal-line and the back of the net when you opened this thread. :laugh::rolleyes:
     
    Rana catesbeiana repped this.
  6. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta United FC
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Country:
    --other--
    Messi has Olympic Gold, which features more talent (with the 3 above age players from South America, Africa and Europe) than any of the continental tournaments except the Copa and the Euro, maybe the ACN and the Asian Cup as well.

    I think he's got at least one more World Cup in him and another two Copas. I give him fair odds on winning at least one of those three. But he's not responsible for Higuain and Benedetto (sp?) missing or getting saved after 120 minutes of total effort to take Chile to PKs. George Weah couldn't get Liberia to a World Cup at all. IMO that doesn't make him any less of a talent. Why is Messi being held responsible for Chile's accomplishments, or Germany's in 2014 or 2010?
     
  7. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    Actually his 31st birthday will occur during that World Cup.
     
  8. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    the thread is an honest question.

    Is this Argentine team the next 82 Brazil?
     
  9. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Liberia can't really be compared to a very very talented Argentine team. My comparison, and what I had in mind was more, is Messi the new Zico?

    Zico has forever been the biggest choker in Brazilian NT... The galinho (his nickname) that couldn't bear the weight of the amarelinha (NT shirt).
     
  10. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    By the way even now. Zico criticized the Brazilian FA and the NT and his comments were received with a collective...

    Never won anything with the NT, why are you even talking?
     
  11. jared9999

    jared9999 Member+

    Jan 3, 2005
    Pachuca, Hidalgo
    Club:
    Club América
    Country:
    Mexico
    Asia has more talent than Concacaf? Thats news to me. Asia didn´t win a single match in Brazil 2014.
     
  12. jared9999

    jared9999 Member+

    Jan 3, 2005
    Pachuca, Hidalgo
    Club:
    Club América
    Country:
    Mexico
    Nobody is claiming George Weah the greatest of all time. And Messi isn´t BTW.
     
  13. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    I think the answer to the question is it does not matter to me.

    I know many people including Pele say that Di Stefano was the best player of all time. And he never won a World Cup. He did win a South American Championship but no one really cares about that since he played for like 3 different National Teams and the dynamics are different these days.
     
  14. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    In all honesty, Di Stefano was a great player and to me Messi is closer to what Di Stefano was than what Pele was.

    But I cannot put Di Stefano was the greatest player ever, as most people also don't, because his Real Madrid was a super team back then and backed by the Franco Government. Him not participating on international tournaments and his team being the only super team in Europe is what gets me kind of down on his status.

    Then the 1962 WC where he didn't get off the bench on team that was clearly bought for the World Cup, where Puskas even played for Spain because of Franco's influence, made it even more clear of how Franco controlled European football.
     
  15. CoJo_93

    CoJo_93 New Member

    Jul 11, 2015
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    If defense no longer becomes part of the sport then yes.
     
  16. Milan05

    Milan05 Member

    Dec 2, 2015
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Argentina's defense was a rock during the knock-out rounds of the 2014 WC. Not a single goal conceded in about 443 consecutive minutes of football until Germany were finally able to break the wall, and they were defending from some very talented strikers against both Belgium and Netherlands.

    Their main problem was attack, Aguero and Di Maria got injured, and Tevez wasn't even called up. This left Messi on his own with the wildly inconsistent and error-prone Higuain.

    I really don't see a reason to why they can't win the 2016 CA. They came within a hair of winning both the 2014 WC and 2015 CA. By the summer, the likes of Dybala and Correa should also develop nicely along as excellent strikes alongside Messi.
     
  17. NewCoach2016

    NewCoach2016 Member

    May 14, 2016
    HA!
     
  18. Milan05

    Milan05 Member

    Dec 2, 2015
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Brazil are out of the tournament and Argentina have, on paper, a stronger squad than any of the remaining teams. If he doesn't win this one now, he will never win with Argentina.
     
  19. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    I am hoping Colombia or USA win it.
    But it is set up on a platter for Argentina that is for sure.
     
  20. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

    Jun 27, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Messi isn't a world class talent in a team of nonames.
     
  21. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    More importantly Uruguay are out of the tournament since that's who Argentina would've played in the quarterfinal if Uruguay had just beaten Venezuela.

    Also good that they avoid Mexico until the final since they're also dangerous.
     
  22. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    He still has 1 more good WC. But I agree it's now or never for him
     
  23. maxsanta

    maxsanta Member

    Dec 2, 2009
    Club:
    --other--
    Country:
    Chile
    A reason is that they've become chokers in finals, having lost 3 of the last 4 Copa America Finals. But that won't last forever and I think they will win this time.
     
  24. Trini_Boi

    Trini_Boi Member

    He will win Copa this year
     
  25. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta United FC
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Country:
    --other--
    He's not losing Copas to no names. There's rarely a Greece or Denmark type story in CONMEBOL.

    But it isn't just Messi. Argentina's loaded with club stars. They should have won something recently with or without Messi. When was it last- 1995?
     

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