Wow, Forest going down to League 1 a couple years ago was pretty bad. Now Leeds going down is really going to suck, especially since there are 2 yanks currently on the roster(I know one is a loan). Nottingham was a slow death, but Leeds' fall has been almost like a comet. A handful of years ago they were in the Champions League semis, now they're going to be going up against the likes of Leyton Orient.
Man City's support held up fairly well when the dropped to the old League two in the late 90's. Their smallest league att. was 26,000 for a visit of Macclesfield. Both of their matches against Millwall were "eventful".
If - and it's a big "if" right now - they can get the financial side at least stabilised, I think they'll manage to get out of League One in 2 or 3 years, as their crowds will eventually give them a significant edge over most rivals. Getting back to the Premiership is likely to be a much harder slog.
of course that all depends of their outgoings, such as debt repayments and stadium rental, which I can't imagine was negotiated with League One football in mind. Selling your site's HQ and leasing it back is a fantastic idea for a business which can move to a new office building if push comes to shove, but it's not quite so good for a football club.
`Newcastle, Chelsea, Man City...and no doubt other clubs have done "The Rollercoaster" And no doubt other clubs will in the future..
Given the huge debt that Leeds have, wouldn't a quicker route back to the premiership be to declare bankruptcy and restart down in the lower leagues as a debt free club?
`Newcastle, Chelsea, Man City...and no doubt other clubs have done "The Rollercoaster" yeh but now the financial gap between the divisions is huge. Every team in the premier receives 30 to 50 million from tv. Teams in the Championship get less than 1 million & Leeds will get less than 100,000 from tv. I think they'll return to the champioship in 2 or 3 seasons, definately not in the first season as every club will raise their game & treat the Leeds game as a cup final. The championship is always tough because there are several big teams with premier ship pedigrees. Leeds only hope is if some billionaire businessman (Abramovich) decides to wipe off their debt & invests millions on players. Leed has huge potential so the investor might get their money back eventually but its a big risk & the investor could lose millions.
Why don't you fuck off? Your reply doesnt surprise me, the truth hurts doesn't it. I know exactly how your feelin, living in a city with two clubs we (United) get wound up every time we lose. The Wednesday fans have gone a bit quiet at the moment as Sheffield seems to have turned red and white but if and when we are relegated we'll face the music every day. Every time we lose in the Prem the Wednesday fans take the piss out of us. Also don't forget Sheff Utd spent one season in Division 4, so I know what its like supporting a crap team with no hope. I don't wish to sound patronising but supporting a crap team will strengthen your resolve and make the Leeds fans even more passionate as you'll remember these bad times when the good time come along. Sheff Wed were in the League 1 only 2 years ago. A mate of mine said its tough because the teams are really physical and they loved playin at Hillboro, they'll raise their games when they play at Elland Road too. My friend also commented that football hooliganism was worse in League 1. Team like Hartlepool, Carlisle etc don't have many fans but they're very passionate and have their nutters who'll turn up lookin for trouble when Leeds visit (like they did with Wednesday). If you only spend 1 or 2 season in League 1 then you'll have fond memories of the lower divions (in retrospect). Lets face it you still have a better chance of returning to the Premiership than most clubs. Chin up mate.
Based on more recent bankruptcies, they would have to start in the Northern Counties East League First Division, which is the tenth level of league in the pyramid. Gone are the days when teams could declare bankruptcy and retain their league status, as Middlesbrough and Wolverhampton effectively did in the '80's.
Administration will probably be good for them, especially if it happens soon enough that the penalty applies to 06/07 rather than 07/08. If they are under competent management, for both football and finance, they will move back up pretty quickly. I think it is probable that Leeds will find new ownership that recognizes the club's potential (and this is just talking about what the club actually had a few short years ago, not some wild fantasy). It would have to be someone with pretty deep pockets though, because the way to pay off the debt really would be to get up into the Premiership as soon as possible, which real money could actually be made, but this would mean swallowing some (significant, but not Ridsdale-style- it's not all that expensive to buy a team that can tonk everyone in League 1) short-term losses. Look at Man City, they came back from the third division in two years. And in 99/00 and 00/01, not exactly the stone age. While I don't think Leeds' path will be as smooth as that, there's no reason to think it's going to take a decade, either.
That's not really true. When Newport County, Maidstone United, and Aldershot Town went bust, they all started pretty low down in the pyramid. Leeds is a different scenario because they are much bigger. More recently even Telford United, who were in the Conference when they folded, were able to start in the lower division of the Unibond Northern Premier League (and are now one playoff win from Conference North). Basically what happens is that there's always a numbers game in levels 6-8. Inevitably there are 2 or 3 clubs who either fold or decide to drop down to a more local league (such as Lancaster City and Scarborough this offseason). If Leeds United went bust, a new version would probably inserted in Conference North or something like that. That said, seeing Leeds United go up against the likes of South Normanton Athletic and Dinnington Town in the NCEL-1 would be amusing.
Into administration, securing the ten point penalty for the 06/07 season. And then immediately resold to Bates and company. Owell.
Smart to do it now if it avoids a points penalty for next year. Will there be much of a revenue drop off going to League One from the Championship?
Can someone explain this "entering administration" business? And why it involves an automatic 10-pt deduction?
It's a legal situation a business can apply for which it allows it to reorganise its affairs without having to go bankrupt. I think it's called chapter 11 in the US (or at least ver similar). the points deduction was brought in because it was felt that a lot of clubs were spending recklessly and just using administration as a safety net to bale them out if it went wrong. This was very unfair on clubs who were trying to keep within a budget as it meant they couldn't compete financially with those who weren't trying to. I think some clubs also did building work which they couldn't afford (Ipswich built two new stands which required staying in the premiership to pay for) and the building firms lost millions, making them pass on the costs to other football clubs (as a kind of insurance) in future deals. The idea is that clubs will start cutting expenses before getting into debt, and run themselves more responsibly, as they know that those debts will have consequences.
the difference between the ones that folded and those that stayed is that those that stayed had backers who come in and pay off the creditors to a degree and back the new club. Aldershot, on the other hand, were famously "rescued" by a 19 year old con-man who had no money. Without a backer, they had no choice but to fold. The best any club could hope for, if they folded, would be to get in at feeder league entry level. There is no fixed promotion and relegation at the bottom of the Southern, Northern and Ryman leagues, but clubs in leagues below can apply for places. The base of the Ryman league was 4 divisions down when Aldershot joined it. It is two divisions higher in the unibond. Unless they did some kind of deal, a theoretically re-formed Leeds would also have to start there.
Actually, there is now organized relegation below those leagues and anomalies such as the one you mention have all now been ironed out. The last piece goes into place starting next season, with the Southern, Northern Premier and Isthmian each having a "top" division with two divisions below that. Below that level there are 14 feeder leagues from which teams may be promoted depending on ground grading.
I'm afraid that's a little out-dated! The Ryman League regionalized Division 1 and Division 2 into Division 1N and 1S a few years ago, with the rump forming a Division 2 (which didn't make any sense - it covered a larger area than the regional divisions). Since then, Division 2 has been disbanded. Meanwhile, the Southern League has had two lower divisions for quite some time and now the NPL is forming a second lower division starting next season finally incorporating some of the Northern League (not to be confused with the Northern Premier League) clubs. The Pyramid is official down to level 11. The Southern, Ryman, and Unibond leagues have official agreements with the 14 level 9 leagues. The level 9 leagues (most of which have a level 10 division) have official agreements with the level 11 leagues. After that, it's just a mishmash of Saturday leagues and it's pretty loose. Some southwestern counties like Cornwall, Devon, and Gloucestershire have official county pyramids below level 11, but that's up to the county FAs and not the national FA. There's no official policy on where re-formed clubs would start. No club as big as Leeds has ever faced that sort of situation, so it's hard to predict; however, I can't imagine they would be any lower than level 8.
Can someone explain this "entering administration" business? And why it involves an automatic 10-pt deduction? The 10 point deduction rule was brought in by the Premier League about 4 years ago. It was caused by the events that happened at Leicester City. They were building a new stadium and near the top of the league and heading for promotion to the Premiership. Apparently they were milions in debt and part way throught the season they went into administration. Everyone assumed they would have to sell off their assets (i.e. the players) and everyone presumed the club would struggle. However a deal was done where most of the debt was written off and they kept all their players and they went on to gain promotion to the Premier League. Many clubs complained that they have to work within a financial framework, however Leicester have overspent and failed financially. However they not received any punishment. Many of the clubs were talking about trying to contrive a situation to go into adminstration in an attempt to clear their debts. There was a meeting as the League were concerned about events at Leicester City. All the clubs voted to introduce an automatic 10 point penalty for any club going into administration. Basically the intention is to punish a club for gambling and failing financially, however because Leeds have gone into administration the day before the last match of the season then the 10 deduction takes effect this season, so in effect they haven't been punished. They've used the rules to thie advantage and people aren't happy. I've changed my opinion. If Leeds acquire a rich investor whom is willing to invest millions in the club then they could be back in 5 years (but it will still be tricky). PS: Leeds United will only play in the lower leagues if they go bust, which when you consider its the biggest city (and a wealthy city) in the UK with one club, there will always be investors so it would never happen.