Whys Aussie Rules with Rugby?

If you had cared to have done some research before shooting off at the lip, they were separate forums (Aussie Rules; Rugby League, Rugby Union) until the bloody Yanks who run this MB decided to combine them, you burke !

And do NOT, repeat NOT, make this just a Rugby (Union, I presume) forum thank you very much.

 

Says who?

 

Better yet, why not combine Aussie Rules and Rugby with Football? They all use an oblong ball.

I'm going to take a shot in the dark and suggest that it might be a bandwidth issue. Since Aussie Rules and Rugby are likely to attract the same retinue (i.e. Aussies), the administration decided to split the difference. I think. I don't have a complete grasp of that expression. Anyway, try to think of this forum as a catch-all for the non-gridiron varieties of football.

 

If you want to talk about Gaelic football here, you're welcome to as well. In fact, during the Ireland - Australia hybrid rules internationals, you have to.

Just don't discuss Canadian football, or the American variant called Arena football here.

Also, Rugby means open to both Union and League (although thankfully, Union dominates the discussion).

 

any other demands?

the forum used to be with cricket, then they split off for whatever reasons. the reason they were all together, and why AFL and rugby are still, is because its most of the same people who post in regards to the sports.

 

i think there shud be a GAA folder, if ya have Aussie Rules with rugby then GAA shud be in there too, seeing as i think Aussie rules is a mix of GAA and Rugby

 

Like I said, if you want to talk Gaelic Football, you're welcome to do it here. Most of us are somewhat ignorant about it. You would probably educate us. You don't get to see much of it in the US on TV. Setanta online shows it pay-per-view on the internet, but I can't imagine curious fans paying money to watch it. I don't know if you get to see any Gaelic Football on TV in Australia.

 

We used to get the All-Ireland football & hurling semi finals and finals on free-to-air TV. I don't think we do anymore though. Might be on pay TV (which I don't have).

Closest is the stupid 'compromise' AFL v GAA game, which throws out all teh best bits of both games.

Interestingly, GAA football is much closer to the original rules of soccer than current soccer is (eg. you were originally allowed to handle the ball, but not run with it)

 

We don't get to see that in the US either. It's on Setanta closed-circuit TV (not the online version). The only highlight I saw this year was that dog running across the field. It was shown on some mainstream news channel like CNN, as a odd human interest story, not sport. Of course, there was no football shown. Try explaining to the mainstream American audience what version of football that would have been. Getting them to understand Australian or Gaelic versions would be a challenge, forget about a hybrid version. I wonder if even people in Australia or Ireland understand it very well.

 

Do you mean this from historical perspective, or are you stating what you observe, from the way these sports are played today?

If you mean historical perspective, is there any info to back this up? I would be interested in knowing about this topic. I think there were a lot of Irish immigrants in Australia, and I'm interested in knowing if they brought any elements of the Gaelic version into Australian. Which version came first? Gaelic or Australian? How does Rugby Union's timeline compare? If anyone has any light to shed on this, it could make the period of inactivity more interesting.

 

Here is my version of this never ending question.
I have the utmost respect for Geoffrey Blainey who researched extensively the book " A game of our own"
He says that there is no connection between Gaelic football and our Aussie Rules.
The Gaelic code was laid down much later than AR.
The founders of our game had been previously exposed to Rugby and Cricket while studying in England.
The first ten rules or laws were put down on paper in May 1859.
This historic set put our game on a different course to the other codes. The main differences were bouncing the ball while running along and no throwing.
The mark or catch was borrowed from Rugby.
The game started originally the same as Rugby -A kickoff from the centre of the ground and in the 1860/70s`s was played on a giant rectangle with 20 a side on the ground. Later it moved onto cricket ovals.
The cricket influence was apparent at the start in the referees being called umpires. I think the the 6 points for a goal was inherited from the six in cricket- However I cannot prove it.

 

Thanks, that's quite an interesting read. I've done a bit of research on the split of Rugby League from Rugby Union. But I didn't have much idea about the historical background of Australian Football (and even less on Gaelic).

 

Gaelic is probably the most "traditional" football - ie the closest to the old village games where the object was to get a ball from one village to another - although the rules weren't formally codified until the 1870's or 80's. It is also probably closer to the original rules of association football (where you were allowed to use your hands) than modern soccer.

Aussie rules was developed by a Mr Wills who had gone to private school in England, and had played rugby. He was looking for something to keep cricketers fit during winter that had less risk of injury than rugby, so devloped the game. Some say that there are influences of traditional Aboriginal games as well. It is the oldest formally codified football code.

 

it baffles me that GAA players still dont get paid, for the biggest sport in Ireland is still an amateur sport its a disgrace!!!! the GAA have rule that bans foreign sports from playing on Croke Park, which is the best stadium in Europe IMO, do u think they should abolish this rule anytime soon!!

 

Have there been any transfers of Irish players in GAA (or Irish players irrespective of Gaelic football connections) to AFL? How about the reverse - Australians from AFL (or even Rugby/any code) going to play in GAA? (Although, this sounds highly unlikely based on the amateur thing you state. I wasn't aware of that, and find it crazy.) Are all players in GAA required to be Irish?

It seems the stadium rule you state is from old days, when keeping the Irish identity distinct from British empire was a priority. In today's day and age of 21st century, the world is far more connected. There is internet, satellite TVs, and what not. It should probably be abolished, purely for business reasons alone. Of course, I'm saying this without fully understanding the background. The only exposure to Irish sports I've had is through documentaries of Americans in travelling in Ireland shown on public television here.

The amateur thing raises another interesting question for me. When Ireland and Australia face off in the hybrid rule test matches every year, do players get paid for representing Ireland? Also, do AFL players get paid to represent Australia?

 

im not sure about AFL players coming over to Ireland, but there has been a lot of irish players who go to Australia to plow their trade, and i am sure no transfer money is exchanged and the players just up and go. you dont have to be irish to play football, but the GAA recently abolished a rule that banned Northern Ireland Police Service and the British Army from playing Hurling or Football, and introduced a cup played between the Irish Army and British Army/PSNI.

 

I wouldn't say a "lot" of Irish have come to AFL. A few have trialled and played at lower levels, but only 3 have made it to the top level consistently - Jim Stynes and Sean Wight at Melbourne in the 1980-90's, and Tadgh Kennelley currently at Sydney.

Carlton have just signed the O'Hailpain brothers, but they are a bit differerent as they were born in Australia, and they played hurling not gaelic football.

The benefit for Aussie clubs is that there are no transfer fees, as the players being amateur are not contracted to Irish clubs, and they are outside the normal draft process.

GAA sports are very much based around the local town or parish club - that is where the true strength is, even though the media focus is on the inter-county representative matches (which a New York and London team also compete in). Transfers between clubs are very rare.

Of course, like rugby in the pre-pro days "amateurism" can be bent a little - I believe some players happen to find that a few euros have magically appearing in their bag when they get back to the dressing room.

The Aussies are paid a pretty nominal amount for playing. The Irish get a travelling allowance when the tests are in Australia.

 

Such pretense sounds crazy in today's economic environment. Don't they charge the Irish public money to enter stadiums to watch matches? What happens to the gate receipts? How do the clubs run - staff salaries, rents, ground fees? How about TV revenue (e.g. doesn't Setanta have to pay for the telecasts)? Somebody has got to make some money somewhere. There is no pure "amateurism" anywhere. Does the GAA keep all money to themselves? If there is a link which explains this, it would be helpful.

Even in the US, the NCAA (that's the collegiate administration body) claims pure "amateurism". But some of the sports draw big crowds with expensive tickets, even for college teams. There is a very complicated model under which the universities add money to their coffers. None of the student players are allowed to earn any salaries, or even allowed to sign any commercial endorsement contracts.

I suppose it makes some sense at college level. But I find the whole issue of Gaelic sports being amateur to be very strange.

 

Mate, not being Irish I don't know the full in's & out's, but I agree. I know it is a matter of much discussion.

Amateurism (and basically paying to play) at the local club level is great - thats the sport most of us & our kids play. However, at the elite level (and make no mistake top GAA athletes are elite, and train as hard as any pros) monetary compensation is a must.

I believe the fear in GAA is that a player from Galway for example will be paid a stack of money to play for Kilkenny, and then the whole history and integrity of the competition - based around "we are better than you" is destroyed.

A good site to ask these questions is http://pub128.ezboard.com/fgaadiscussionboardfrm1

 

Thanks for the link. I looked around a bit, and it seems that a lot of the work in GAA is based on volunteers donating their time. The general impression I get is that all money raised goes into GAA's coffers. This is the most unusual sports organization structure I've heard of anywhere.

 

True

The thing about the GAA is that it is as much a cultural organisation as a sporting one.

I believe it promotes use of the Gaelic language and cultural things like dance and song as well as hurling, football and other indigenous sports. It was also of course a hotbed of republicanism in the early days - hence the bans on police and army personnel from playing the games, and of other "foreign" sports from using GAA facilities such as Croke Park.