Why won't companies just offer more money if they need employees?

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by superdave, Oct 21, 2015.

  1. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20151020_Driver_shortage_plagues_the_trucking_industry.html

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/21/d...n-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=1

    I only have these two links, but I know I've seen the same theme WRT schoolteachers within the last month.

    I don't understand why the invisible hand isn't working. I mean, we know corporate profits are really high, so it's not like employers are faced with a Scylla and Charibdis choice of going out of business due to lack of staff vs. going out of business due to costs outstripping revenue.

    My WAG is that the problem is that employers are not rational actors, that for whatever reason they won't do the obvious and offer people more money to either come into the field, or to steal workers from other employers, or even offer training. They're just being stubborn and are emotionally attached to the status quo since 2000 or so, namely, stagnant at best real wages.

    Thoughts?
     
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  2. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    Companies are making high profits and they prefer to keep making them and if they sacrifice market share because they don't have enough employees, so be it.
     
  3. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    Those are two specific industries with pretty tough margins I think - it's not that easy to just raise pay for line cooks without a corresponding raise in prices, especially when ingredient costs may go up when shipping prices increase due to higher pay for drivers whose companies can be at the mercy of gas prices.

    As far as profits not necessarily translating to higher wages - big publicly traded companies are often less focused on profits than they are growth - which leads to insane moves like companies making money firing long time employees to improve the growth on paper for investor appeal.

    And we think socialism is evil, go figure.
     
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  4. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Shit our company sold off a high profit but slow turning division because we wanted to improve cash flow. Profits are not the only thing.
     
  5. QuakeAttack

    QuakeAttack Member+

    Apr 10, 2002
    California - Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One of my clients in lovely Silicon Valley wasn't growing fast enough. There have been the Fortune 100 Top Companies to Work For for several years.

    Two years, they have a layoff in the 1000 people range. Not your low performing 10%, but they release middle management and senior staff - many of them who had been at the company for 5-10 years (which is a long time in the valley). Made no sense. Good, high performing people. Sadly, one of the senior staff killed himself. Lovely wife and two beautiful daughters.
     
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  6. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina

    The problem, at least speaking as a small business owner, is that you want to keep fixed costs low in order to have flexibility. Most small businesses go under due to cash flow issues created by high fixed costs and lack of flexibility.

    Unfortunately, for most small companies, the cost of labor -and the taxes, insurances, benefits etc. associated with the cost of labor- tend to be their largest fixed cost. And contrary to popular belief, most business owners hate to have to lay people off, it's one of the most unpleasant aspects of having a business.

    Sure, you can say that most business owners pay themselves much more than they are willing to pay their workers. But even if you pay yourself a lot more, you are just one person, so the overall impact on fixed costs is less. Plus, it's much easier to cut your own salary or even keep your paycheck in your drawer for some time, if sales go down and you are short of money, as was the case from time to time in my business. You can't keep your employees paychecks in the drawer, at least not legally, so as an owner you have to make sure you can cover them every pay period no matter what.

    So, when I was a small business owner I was always hesitant to hire new employees until I got to the point where I had no choice but to do it. As far as how much to pay each employee, I personally as policy tried to pay a bit above the market rate, so I could attract good talent and avoid turnover. But many business owners are hesitant to raise salaries for the same reasons that I was hesitant to hire new workers. To try to keep fixed costs from getting out of hand and minimize their risk of going out of business if there's a downturn.

    Sad thing is, now that I'm working in the public sector I'm running into a similar problem. Part of my new job is hiring and providing certified legal interpreters to the Santa Clara County court system. But since the court system underpays, the interpreters prefer to work in the private sector, and we end up understaffed. And the interpreters who do work for the court end up being overworked to the point where they can't provide good service due to fatigue. The result is that many limited-English speaking people who go to court are not being provided equal access in their own language, which basically means they are not being provided justice at all.

    Anyway, that's a separate issue, but it's something I'm trying to work on to find a fix. We have now a mandate from the California Supreme Court to provide equal access in court to limited English speakers, but unless the state courts raise the pay it's going to be a challenge to be able to do it.
     
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  7. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well.. In the case of the company I work for.. They have shareholders to appease and execs to compensate.. Despite record sales and profits the stock price has been fairly stagnant due to external factors, so in order to appease the stockholders, they spent a healthy chunk of that profit on increasing the dividend, a significant stock buyback regime, and, of course, massive bonuses for the execs.
     
  8. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    #8 Cascarino's Pizzeria, Oct 22, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2015
    Ditto. Then we get the company-wide email that we have to work to "increase shareholder value." Which IIRC was not a tremendous driver of corporate decisions until the go-go 80s.

    Edit: Article about maximizing shareholder value as a company's primary purpose as illustrated by IBM. Basically economic theorists & Wall Street f*ck America once again.

    The belief that shareholders come first is not codified by statute. Rather, it was introduced by a handful of free-market academics in the 1970s and then picked up by business leaders and the media until it became an oft-repeated mantra in the corporate world.

    Together with new competition overseas, the pressure to respond to the short-term demands of Wall Street has paved the way for an economy in which companies are increasingly disconnected from the state of the nation, laying off workers in huge waves, keeping average wages low and threatening to move operations abroad in the face of regulations and taxes.

    This all presents a quandary for policymakers trying to combat joblessness and raise the fortunes of lower- and middle-class Americans. Proposals by President Obama and lawmakers on Capitol Hill to change corporate tax policy, for instance, are aimed at the margins of company behavior when compared with the overwhelming drive to maximize shareholder wealth.

    “The shift in what employers think of as their role not just in the community but [relative] to their workforce is quite radical, and I think it has led to the last two jobless recoveries,” said Ron Hira, an associate professor of public policy at the Rochester Institute of Technology.

    The change can be seen in statements from IBM’s leaders over the years. When he was IBM’s president and chief executive, Thomas J. Watson Jr., son of the company’s founder, spoke explicitly about balancing a company’s interests with the country’s. Current chief executive Virginia Rometty has pledged to follow a plan called the “2015 Road Map” in which the primary goal is to dramatically raise the company’s earnings-per-share figure, a metric favored by Wall Street.


    ...In 1970, Nobel Prize-winning economist Milton Friedman wrote an article in the New York Times Magazine in which he famously argued that the only “social responsibility of business is to increase its profits.”

    Then in 1976, economists Michael Jensen and William Meckling published a paper saying that shareholders were “principals” who hired executives and board members as “agents.” In other words, when you are an executive or corporate director, you work for the shareholders.

    Stout said these legal theories appealed to the media — the idea that shareholders were king simplified the confusing debate over the purpose of a corporation.

    More powerfully, it helped spawn the rise of executive pay tied to share prices — and thus the huge rise in stock-option pay. As a result, average annual executive pay has quadrupled since the early 1970s.


    http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...e9ca8e-ed74-11e2-9008-61e94a7ea20d_story.html
     
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  9. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Remember how high the top marginal tax rate was before Reagan. If you're really rich but your marginal tax rate is 70% you're alot less concerned about dividends. You're just buying stocks because you have to put your money SOMEwhere. When the top rate goes to 50% and then keeps ratcheting down, your interest in dividends goes up.

    I'm not making an argument here for a 70% marginal rate. I'm just pointing out one of the possible drivers of that change.

    I wonder if the more important change in the 80s wasn't the statutory changes in tax law, but just the sociological change. Many, many people thought Gordon Gekko was the hero of Wall Street. I doubt that would have been true if the movie had been released in the 70s, or 60s, or 50s, etc.

    I mean, to me, Donald Trump is manifestly a ridiculous person, an utter clown. And while many people agree with me, enough don't that the media have to treat him with respect, he's a viable candidate for president, etc.
     
  10. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Indeed.. There's also been a dramatic shift in how employers view employees. Employees are viewed as little more than commodities now and given the current shareholder first mindset, the cost of commodities has to be driven down. My employer has been pulling out of "high cost" areas and shifting work to "low cost" areas. In other words, laying off employees in areas where the wages are high and hiring new employees in low wage areas of the country.. Unfortunately it has resulted in drops in productivity and quality, but hey, the employee cost is lower!
     
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  11. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, it takes a while for the lower cost employees to get the experience to get to the level of the former employees, but then they start demanding higher wages, so it becomes time to move again. This may be happening in China now, wage inflation may mean moving some of those low wage jobs somewhere else, as China moves more people to middle class and higher skill work. Hopefully Africa can get some of those jobs and they can help them cut down poverty rates.
     
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  12. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess here is a good spot for this.

    [​IMG]

    https://espresso.economist.com/ded5e3abc5b47bd4fab6e07f6cc5cce6
     
  13. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    This is exactly how my fortune 500 company operates.

    I will say though that our yearly anonymous feedback survey does not show wages as a major complaint of workers. The primary critiques are workload management, unrealistic performance metrics, schedule flexibility and dissatisfaction with the health coverage. Not sure how scientific these surveys are, but I suspect that it's not far off from the truth ...
     
  14. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    There's little worse in business than being taken over by a large company.

    I've been through it three times, and it's amazing how big corporations always think they know how to run businesses far better than smaller ones.

    My last one was a classic example. It was a small company, employing about 75 people. It made a profit every year and was a growing business. It got bought out by a US company who removed the entire management structure (except the yes men) and brought in their own people. The result was the company lost 70% of its business in 18 months.

    Now, there was a definite suspicion that the company was only really interested in the portion that makes up most of what's left, and wasn't too fussed about losing the rest, but why would anyone run down part of a company that made a profit?
     
  15. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    From my news feed:

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/markets/2016/04/29/yahoos-marissa-mayer-gets-55m-leave/83722362/

    The CEO of the embattled online news site, currently trying to sell itself, is entitled to severance benefits valued at $54.9 million in case she is terminated without cause, according to a regulatory filing after the market closed Friday. The potential payout would also be triggered by a "change of control," which includes the sale of the company, according to the filing.
    Mayer's potential payout includes cash severance of $3 million, $26,324 to continue her health benefits, $15,000 for outplacement, and -- if that's enough -- nearly $52 million worth of accelerated restricted stock and options.

    /quote

    And also...

    http://m.dailykos.com/story/2016/04...s-guess-who-s-getting-a-raise?detail=facebook

    The London-based energy giant, which operates the BP Whiting Refinery on Lake Michigan, announced another 7,000 layoffs worldwide so far this year in response to a huge drop in the price of crude oil. Dudley is in line to be paid 280 times as much as workers at the Whiting refinery, who earn around $70,000 a year on average, according to the United Steelworkers union.

    /quote


    Raise the minimum wage?

    The economy will collapse!!!
     
  16. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    In a similar tale, an 88 year old department store chain is set to fold with the loss of 11,000 jobs in the UK. The owner, who bought it in 2000, failed to turn the company around, yet paid himself £400 million in dividends, a figure not a million miles away from the pension fund deficit now at the company.

    The £400 million was also paid to an offshore account, so no tax was paid on it either.
     
  17. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    The nature of who and how people invest have changed dramatically over the last twenty years. The stock market has more amateurs and panic buyers and is far more volatile. Doubt people view Gekko as a hero anymore.

    Trump has given the media something other candidates couldn't and that's profit. It's a business like any other and if the clown brings more eyeballs the clown gets the attention. Sucks but true.
     
  18. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Raiding companies to cash out pension funds is a classic, very wall street movie. Maybe they will be nationalized like the English steel company Tata steel is selling. Well only if Labor gets in power.
     
  19. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    But anyone with just a little Trump knowledge knows he was born on 3rd base & thinks he hit a HR. And he'd be twice as rich if he just invested daddy's inheritance in an index funds 35 yrs ago and did coke/banged hoahs the rest of his days. Instead this rat face f#ck has taken an entire political party hostage. Joke's not funny any more.

    If I was in charge of oppo research for his opponents I'd be skewering him non-stop.
     
  20. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    Never was funny but we have a few more months of it.
     
  21. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Britain's only mainstream Labour-supporting newspaper, The Daily Mirror, was owned by Robert Maxwell. He died after falling off his yacht in 1991. The paper was full of tributes to their kind, caring, brilliant leader. The tone after the articles changed somewhat shortly after, when it was found that he'd stolen the money from the company pension scheme.

    The was no sorrow in Reading over his death. Towards the end of the 82/83 season he announced that Oxford United (who he owned) and Reading were going to merge to form a new club called Thames Valley Royals, to play in the small town of Didcot, halfway between the two. It was a daft plan, and would almost certainly have just ended with Reading's Elm Park being sold and the team staying in Oxford, as Oxford, in a classic case of asset stripping.
     
  22. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    This is a great name for a band.
     
  23. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    I was looking at The Asset Strippers.
     
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  24. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    On a related point, I saw Bernie a few weeks ago being interviewed on Morning Joe. Scarborough scoffed at the idea of free college. And Bernie replies, "well who thought even 5 years ago that cities & states would pass laws raising the minimum wage to $15/hour?"

    IIRC my first job in 8th grade I was paid the then princely sum of $3.35/hour. :eek:
     
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  25. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    My first job was also at $3.35 and the minimum wage had just gone up from $3.10.
     

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