Many Spurs fans call themselves Yids. Why would they be "slurring" against themselves? While there may be a small racial element among a small number of rival supporters, to latch onto this one aspect and present it the main reason for Tottenham's unpopularity is just wrong. It may have escaped your attention but London clubs don't like one another very much. I can't see why you seem determined to prove (as in trying to drag Liverpool/Everton into the religious bigotry problem) a religious basis for rivalry when it is clear that geographical proximity is by far the main reason.
lol. Why are so many people getting offended? Spurs are Yiddo's. Everyone knows that, they chant it all day long at Three Point Lane.
Why I don't like Spurs 1. Dillusions of grandeur. Spurs fans claim that they play in a particular style of flowing football, and that they should play the 'Spurs way'. The fact the 'Spurs way' has got them nowhere apart from the odd FA Cup win is irrelevent to them. They also claim to be a big club, which is true only in the sense of fan base. They have only won the title twice (I think), and that's even less than Blackburn (three titles) !. If it wasn't for their success in the FA Cup, the trophy cabinet would be quite bare. 2. Arrogance. This was wonderfully highlighted by the Worthington Cup final last year. Before the game, the papers and airwaves were full of 'Hoddle will take us into Europe', 'Blackburn ?, we'll stuff them easily' and so on. After Blackburn's win, it was all along the lines of 'How dare Blackburn win', and 'Sheringham was fouled [which he was admittedly]'. In other words, they were arrogant before the event, and had no grace afterwards. 3. Glenn Hoddle. Arrogant twerp who is full of himself. I've never liked that man, and his conduct towards his own team after the loss was disgraceful. 4. Terry Venables. Over rated, ************-er-nee wide boy who picked too many Spurs players for England. Come on now, Darren Anderton on the left ?, Nick Barmby anywhere ?.
This was something that was suggested rather than actually practiced. In the 40s and 50s Everton were getting a lot of their players from Ireland, while Liverpool were buying Scots. Some people looked at that, as well as Everton's beginnings at St. Domingo's Church, and tried to make a case out of it.
Actually St. Domingo's was a Methodist church so that argument is a bit of a non-starter. But I agree with your last comment. Fans of opposing teams like to look as at eachother as different types of people be it from a religious standpoint, class or background.
That's right. I knew that at one point, but over the years in my mind it became, for no reason, a Catholic church. Thanks for the correction.
Er, thanks for the info mate, but i am an educated person and knew this already You're an Aussie..or an ex-pat like myself perhaps, but i tend to think not. You see mate, i can understand the Americans looking at it that way as they have never seen the lot at the park end cheer..Yidooooooossssss...as i have.It has never had anything to do with being anti-semitic.It is simply what they chose to call a certain element of their support. Now, if you were an ex pat you would know this as people who have been to these places understand. People who look at messages written on posting boards only see the words and have fu(k all clue as to the meaning behind them.Therefore they tend to think "mainstream" like you have done. No offence meant mate, but, as the Yanks like to say...you're way of base .
And I suppose it wasn't an acknowledgement of it when Bosnich gave a Nazi salute to the Spurs supporters a few years back, was it?
Ah, the famous Nazi salute. I challenge you to find any footage of Nazis, either in 30s/40s Germany or neo-nazis in more modern times, where the Nazi accompanies the traditional outstretched right arm with putting the index finger of the left hand under the nose to make a 'comedy tache'.
I think it was just some idiots from Glasgow or Ireland trying to tar the Liverpool clubs with their brush.
Lanky; It was "practiced" and for a while it was pretty hard core. Liverpool was a lot like Glasgow in the old days. Celtic and Everton were Catlicks and Rangers and the Pool were prodies. Mostly in the 30's and 40's. My dad bless his cotton socks, would get so mad if I went to Goodison with Frankie Deering...!!! In the 50's it started dying out. There was a group in the 70/80's who used to bring a flag to the Kop with the "Red Hand" on it but they were "Discouraged" shall we say. We had a thread going on this a while ago.
>Er, thanks for the info mate, but i am an educated person and knew this already Irony, Clanblue. An "educated" person should have seen that >You're an Aussie..or an ex-pat like myself perhaps, but i tend to think not. Pure assumption! I'm a Brit. Spent the first 24 years of my life in Lancashire and then 15 in North London before recently coming to WA. Have returned to the UK four times since coming here and will many times again. >Yidooooooossssss...as i have.It has never had anything to do with being anti-semitic I had a rolleyes emoticon here but the board won't allow it. >People who look at messages written on posting boards only see the words and have fu(k all clue as to the meaning behind them.Therefore they tend to think "mainstream" like you have done. During that education you claim to have had did anyone ever explain the word "patronising" to you? There was a wink here but the board again won't allow it (what the hell is it with this board that three emoticons in unacceptable?) I understand what you're saying, Clanblue, that the use of "yido" is now a case of British sardonic irony, where we poke fun at prejudice by imitating it. The classic case was, of course, the Alf Garnett series some years ago where anti-semitic and anti-immigration jokes were used to ridicule racism. And I agree it's a form of humour that some Americans, with little experience of the British, would appreciate. Ab Fab is a recent example of British humour where the American free-to-air networks have seen it as unsuitable for American mainstream audiences (I believe cable has carried it but you would know more about that than I). Australia, incidentally, has a similar and sometimes even more vicious humour as many an English cricketer has found out But the point is that this humour only works precisely because there is anti-semitism existing or, in this case, has existed between North London clubs and Spurs. Which is what I'm saying. I doubt that anti-semitism occurs today in any but the most ingnorant of fans but it has existed in the past in a much more severe form, particularly back in the 30s when racism was rife but possibly right up to the mid-eighties. And as such it has been a major contributor in elevating the rivalry between North London clubs well beyond mere local rivalry. Which is surely what the thread title question is all about. Why hatred instead of mere local rivalry?
Re: Why I don't like Spurs Paraphrase - If it wasn't for all those trophies they won their trophy cabinet would be quite bare. Anyway, The reason for the rivalry with Arsenal was that Arsenal moved to North London for the extra fan base and also because Arsenal bought their way into the 1st division in 1919 (I think that was the year) at the expense of Spurs. I think the rivalries are basically due to geography (at least in Spur's case). Religion is kind of an excuse or just something to use in chants not really the cause.
If that was the case then surely hatred of Spurs would have died down in the last 20 years? I don't think it has, although saying that I'd say Spurs dislike Arsenal just as much as Arsenal dislike them. It is just intense rivalry. Do all London clubs hate Spurs the most? I'd find that unlikely. Anti-semetism, if in exists in England to the degree you appear to think, would surely mean that other clubs up and down the country would hate Spurs too, and there's no evidence of this at all. That's not to say they all have a fondness for them, just that they are just another London club. I find it strange that the spurs fans who are replying to this thread are saying it's got nothing, or very little, to do with anti-semetism (and you'd think they'd know) yet you seem to have latched into this one aspect of the rivalry and are blowing it up out of all proportion. If Yid is such a slur you'd think that Tottenham's jewish supporters (not a particularly big percentage) would be offended that non-jewish Spurs fans sing about being Yiddos.
another thread where so much has been said about so little. also, that last post by RichardL makes too much sense to be on here. mods: please remove it.
Besides, it's not "hatred". That is such a lame word to use. It's like United and Liverpool. We apparently "hate" each other, but the precise nature of the rivalry is far more complex and involved than basic "I haytchoo, I do!". Utter bollocks. Always and in every instance.
Hatred is indeed much too strong a word, particularly in today's context. But the situation between some clubs goes much beyond the normal rivalry that exists between local clubs. It also exists between particular groups of fans not amongst all fans. In my experience the strength of the rivalry between Arsenal and Spurs is greater than most and it certainly has its roots in the past and is linked to anti-semitism. And, as I've said, old habits die hard - something of the strength of the rivalry remains even when the original cause has faded. For myself, why any fan considers that, to support one club you have to dislike another, is beyond me but unfortunately it certainly is the case with some fans and results in these over tense "rivalries".
Depends on the depth of your allegiance, I suppose. To many, myself included, the club I support is part of my life. I associate with it's characteristics, history, personality and place in the world. By extension, I naturally view the characteristics, history, personality and place in the world of other clubs in a very different light. Hugely subjective issue, of course, but there it is. Disliking another club for what they are or represent, relative to what "we" are and represent is surely part and parcel of that.
No, as a Man Utd fan I follow their progress carefully, I feel elated when they win, I feel down when they lose. But in no way do I feel dislike for any other club. I don't see how disliking, say Villa, or feeling it more important to beat them than any other club, in any way promotes my support of Utd. I can enjoy a performance by Michael Owen or Thierry Henry or Joe Bloggs, though not perhaps as much as enjoying a performance by van Nistelrooy. It doesn't matter who they're playing for. A performance is a performance and so much is lost if you can't appreciate it because they play for a particular team. Makes no sense to me and certainly nothing to do with depth of allegience.
That's not what I am talking about though. Sure, if you cannot accept and appreciate a skillful performance from an opposing player, whomsoever they may play for, then it's your loss. But this is a far deeper issue than that. Players are transient elements in the equation - the clubs themselves are the bedrock of "support". I support the team, but my allegiance is to the club. Which is how, for instance, a player who disrespects the club is given a hard time, even if you can enjoy his "performance" on the pitch. Two different things.
The fact that traditionally those two have been the best supported clubs in the city, and they are only a few miles apart accounts for a vast amount more than anti-semetism does. Spurs-Arsenal isn't even considered the most bitter rivalry in the English league. Man U v Leeds/Liverpool/Man City can be pretty unpleasant. Newcastle v Sunderland isn't exactly a giant group hug. Even on smaller, less publicised scale, the rivalry between Cardiff & Swansea is pretty intense. No other derby fixture has been forced to ban away supporters to the same degree that happens there. Nowhere else would you see an autoglass trophy preliminary round match pull in 22,000 people. I think that comment says more about your understanding of the English game than anything else you've said.
But how does disliking a particular club beyond that of other opposition clubs improve your support for your own club or represent greater allegience? With regard to other players the danger is that, because of your dislike for the club, you will emotionally downgrade a player's performance and then fail to appreciate its full quality.
The first issue is not relevant. It's not about improving your support, it's just part of it. It's about identifying with YOUR club. In contrast to others who do not represent the same things to you. The second point is also a bit of a "so what". At Liverpool, we actually have a real tradition of applauding good performances from opposing players, but at the end of the day, the "danger" of "emotionally downgrading" some punter from the other side is hardly a klaxon-blaring, siren-wailing, blue-light-shining "danger", now is it? Gosh, some people have left the ground without fully appreciating the quality of the opposition's play. Woe is us ... Who cares?
>Who cares? Well, I do. If my appreciation of the performance of players is coloured by an antagonism to an opposition club then my enjoyment of the game is diminished because I can't fully appreciate the skills shown. As a soccer fan, as well as a Utd fan, I enjoy a skillful game. Not appreciating the skills of the players because of my dislike of one of the clubs reduces my enjoyment of the game.