Why is Jill Ellis still employed?

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by Cannons, Mar 9, 2017.

  1. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Excuse me, but that is not the "consensus" here. It is the opinion of some prolific posters.

    Ups and downs notwithstanding, the USWNT remains the #1 team in the world, according to the stats, which are more reliable than we subjective individuals. That, probably, is the answer to the question from the OP.
     
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  2. olelaliga

    olelaliga Member

    Aug 31, 2009
    You do great work, and I am sure are well aware of the lag situation and the trends toward parity in the rankings. Few I think would scoff when some take the position that the USA is not presently playing like the top ranked team in world. The hope of continued dominance is further eroded for those of us tuned into the recent YNT performances.
     
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  3. Smallchief

    Smallchief Member+

    Oct 27, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I've been re-watching the US WNT matches of the last year. It seems to me that we have four crucial players, In the absence of all or most of them, we are not the No. 1 team in the world: In no particular order, they are Morgan, Rapinoe, Ertz, and Sauerbrunn.

    Heath may join this elite crew if she comes back strong from injury. O'Hara and Mewis are also candidates to become key cogs.

    Lavelle looks to me to be the most promising of the youngsters -- but she looks fragile to me, maybe too fragile to play in the rough and tumble attacking midfield where she seems best.
     
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  4. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    Year, we haven’t been keeping up since 1992 :rolleyes:
     
  5. WWC_Movement

    WWC_Movement Red Card

    Dec 10, 2014
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Papua New Guinea
    Why is Jill Ellis still employed?

    -Because she has the receipt


    [​IMG]
     
  6. thegamesthatrate

    Jan 9, 2007
    Consensus is not always formed by numerosity. One intelligent poster counts for more than a plethora of idiots. Consensus and head counts are not one and the same.
     
  7. thegamesthatrate

    Jan 9, 2007
    Check the ratings from the men's final in 2014. I believe at the time it set a record for most widely viewed soccer game in American history (since eclipsed by the '15 WWC final). True, an American men's team advancing to later rounds would have the potential to generate higher ratings on American TV than any sports event other than the Super Bowl, but it's not like nobody is watching.
     
  8. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    So, by consensus you meant something other than consensus? It was your word, you know...
     
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  9. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    If I want to look at the job Ellis is doing I look to Canada. Herdman came aboard after the 2011 WC and found a team in disarray coming off a last place WC performance. He had a team of mostly older players and very little in the way of development. Since then he has won two bronze medals, revitalized the development system and turned Canada from a team the US beat like a rug into one of our fiercest rivals. IMO Herdman, who Ive never liked very much, has done a much better job than Ellis despite Ellis having a ton more to work with. I don't think it is unreasonable to wonder what a better coach could do with the US wealth of riches given a fair chance.
     
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  10. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    yes it is.

    If the plethora of idiots Agee, you have consensus. The one intelligent person is not part of the consensus.

    consensus:
    Numerosity:
     
  11. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Biggest surprise to me is Press not being able to force her way on ur list.
     
  12. RevsRule

    RevsRule Member+

    NE Revs, LAFC
    Jun 9, 1999
    N. Eastern, Mass
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #162 RevsRule, Dec 26, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2017
    I totally agree with this. Anything we're doing has little to do with Ellis and more to do with the players. All our coaching problems go back to Sunil not having any idea what to do. From hiring Klinsmann initially to extending his contract for a second time to bringing back Arena a second time to having no idea what to do when Pia quit. Just an total mess. And the mess continues. We have no current president of US Soccer and have already played one friendly, and now a Jan camp, with an Arena underling on the mens side. On the womans side he hired Ellis, then extended her (like Klinsmann) which was a big mistake. All because he was clueless after Pia. When you watch the USA women play a good team, you see that we are NOT playing as sophisticated a game as the opposition and are mostly still winning on athleticism. Ellis is not the person to take our team forward technically. I would love to see a much better coach in there. We could easily come in last in that upcoming SheBelieves Cup with Germany, England, France and the USA playing. Yikes. Who can we beat there? Ellis could look like Superwoman or Bruce Arena after this one. Maybe a poor showing will be enough for the next President to make a move? We'll see
     
  13. olelaliga

    olelaliga Member

    Aug 31, 2009
    Agree with much of what you have said except the still winning part...
     
  14. Smallchief

    Smallchief Member+

    Oct 27, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Ho, hum.....the dark days without USWNT and NWSL games.....

    Rewatching the Canada games with US, two Canadians I really like are Alyssa Chapman at left back and Rebecca Quinn at center back. Quinn is not yet a finished product, but she's good.

    For the U.S., I don't have a great deal of confidence with any of our GKs. I would like to see Franch given a good tryout for the NT. Whatever her faults, she rarely allows a goal.

    I would like to see Kelly O'Hara play left back for the US and team with Rapinoe on that side. The right side of the field is open to who wins. Right forward or right wing and right back. I'd like to see Huerta get another try at right back.

    Also we need another centerback. Sonnet will have to persuade me she can fill the spot. I can't help recalling her being victimized by Rapinoe in a NWSL game a few months ago. Thus, Menges should get a look-see.
     
  15. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Canada - Problem with Quinn is I don't think she starts. When Buchanan and Schmidt r available and believing Herdman still prefers Scott in a destroyer role, it's hard to see Quinn getting much time.

    US - the problem Ellis has with her WC roster is too many attacking player. Traditionally u guessimate two players for each spot giving u six attacking holes. Ellis has to cram Morgan, Press, Williams, Dunn, Pugh, Lavelle, Rapinoe & Heath into those spots and thats leaving Lloyd with the midfielders where she really doesn't play. That also ignores outsiders like Leroux, ARod, Hatch, Ohai, etc from forcing their way into consideration. As it stands I think it is far more likely Ellis looks to steal spots from the defender and midfield groups. Things like Dunn covering at OB, Ertz and Short at CB, Press in the midfield might cost traditional backup players their spots. It's a dangerous game if injury bites and these cover players not only end up playing outside normal roles but need to be replaced in their current roles.
     
  16. thegamesthatrate

    Jan 9, 2007
    Consensus of intelligence, not numerosity.
     
  17. Dundalk24

    Dundalk24 Member

    Jul 20, 2007
    PA/OH
    A Consensus or...a consensus of...."numerosity" can be objectively quantified.

    Not sure how one designates a "consensus of intelligence." Who decides? One person's consensus of intelligence is another's consensus of folly.
     
  18. BlueCrimson

    BlueCrimson Member+

    North Carolina Courage
    United States
    Nov 21, 2012
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Club:
    Sydney FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All 3 of those teams are dealing with their own issues right now. Germany has largely been a mess under Jones (although they did temporarily stop the bleeding with their massive win over France), no one wants the England job, and France has lost some key players to retirement over the last year. Yes, the US does have problems to be sorted out, but they aren't the only ones.
     
  19. Thomsen

    Thomsen Member+

    Aug 6, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Germany’s a mess because Steffi is probably the worst woso coach ever
     
  20. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    The very word "consensus" implies "numbers" if you have any Latin at all, while your use of "numerosoty" disqualifies you yourself from any consensus of intellects.

    Hell, our concern with the decision making process of US Soccer disqualifies all of us from that, I think.

    Aristotle was fond of the phrase "all rational men will agree..." He was especially fond of it when he was trying to put over as fact something that plenty of rational men would disagree on when they thought it through. Maintaining that all or even a consensus ( "consensus" means, or used to mean not merely a majority, but an overwhelming majority, 90% or more. When the minutes of 18th century New England town meetings reported that "a consensus was arrived at" they meant, literal unanimity. They hashed it out till everybody agreed on a course of action.) of intelligent people agree on something is just an attempt to disqualify opposing opinions-- a cheap rhetorical trick which carries no weight with any but the truly dim. All rational men will agree that it is an invalid argument form.
     
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  21. BlueCrimson

    BlueCrimson Member+

    North Carolina Courage
    United States
    Nov 21, 2012
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Club:
    Sydney FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No one is worse than Greg Ryan.
     
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  22. Thomsen

    Thomsen Member+

    Aug 6, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    No seriously she's the female version of Roy Hodgson
     
  23. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    And add Japan to the list plus Brazil always seems in flux. The door is wide open for teams like Australia, Netherland etc to establish themselves among the perennial favorites.
     
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  24. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Have to say I loved the shot of Ellis hugging Crystal Dunn after putting in a more than credible shift at left back against England. Of course Ellis knew Dunn could do it despite the fact that Dunn was cut from the WC roster because Ellis knew Dunn couldn't play FB against quality teams. Maybe the two years of not being coached at FB by Ellis have significantly improved her game. If this somehow evolves into one of Ellis' revelations and Dunn moves back to FB in will be up there comedically with:
    - Ellis ignores Johnston until she is suddenly a starter and WC Best XI
    - Ellis moves Holiday back to the 6 where she disappears only to re-emerge playing farther up the midfield when Ellis is forced to dust off Brian and put her in the 6. Both Brian & Holiday r then key components in the WC win.
    - Ellis discovers Long in an obscure soccer league, makes her a starter and builds her offense around her. Unfortunately Ellis doesn't remember that Long was already on the team when she first took over.
    - Rapinoe amazingly being fit to play in the Olympics even tho it looked like she was having trouble standing up.
    - The absurd way she uses Press (who is dead to me) in every position except the one that got her on the NT to begin with.
    - The 3 center back formation that amazingly featured only one CB and she was not played in the center.
    - And my favorite...after three years of denial that there was any place for a DM in the modern game and a second unexplained disappearance of Ertz (nee' Johnston), the team goes on a 10 game unbeaten streak by playing Ertz at DM.
     
  25. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Jill Ellis new theme song,
     

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