Why is ESPN Anti-Soccer in the U.S., but Pro-Soccer Everywhere else?

1) bars
2) there is this little device called VCR, or its new off-spring called Tivo.

 

Well, we're not asking for all CL games to be broadcasted, if that is too much to ask. Only some BIG games, between teams with a decent CL history - ManU, Real, Bayern, Juv, Milan etc. Like I said, some Americans are already attaching themselves to some of these clubs. We're not asking for ALL CL games (even QF games). Just the rivalries man. And also hype these matches before hand. Talk about them on sports center etc. Show people even a schedule. Maybe they'll get more viewers. But then again, maybe it's not their intention to make some noise about these games. Who knows?
But then again, I've noticed some people here prolong this discussion because they have their dbs so they get to watch almost all CL games, and these same guys don't want to share that information. That's OK!

 

You are really hopeless. There are no big games or big rivalries in the CL to the American audience. It's a PROGRAM FILLER. Repeat after me: PROGRAM FILLER. Because the American public don't care, it doesn't matter whether it's Bayern Munich x Real Madrid or Olympic Lyon x Real Sociedad. Does it matter to you, Kotto Bass, whether a particular the spelling bee competition televised is the national final or the eastern regional?

Hype of these matches are widely available, on FSW Report, Sky Sports News, and if you know Spanish, on many sports highlight shows in Spanish (for example, Fox Sports Noticias on FS Espanol). It's just not on SportsCenter. Coincidentally, it's also on SportsCenter en Espanol. Now why you must watch SportsCenter, and SportsCenter alone, for these "big game" previews, and refuse to watch it on any other channel is beyond me. Otherwise, why aren't these preview on SportsCenter an issue at all?

This other guy pc4th have been complaining about lack of MLS highlights on SportsCenter, and I've shown him why his thinking is seriously flawed. Check out this thread:

https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2447296#post2447296

You have officially joined BocaFan and pc4th, for faulting ESPN1/2 or Sportcenter for not showing some soccer content that are widely available on other channels.

 

There is no point in trying to justify a 'hopeless' situation. It obviously makes you look hopeless. Like I said, many Americans are already siding with some European teams! A lot of people send in requests to ESPN about CL games they suggest should be shown (me inclusive). If ESPN has to show the games, isn't it normal to hype them up on ESPN before then? Equating CL to spelling bee competitions is totally stupid because when those same teams come over to the US for a summer exhibition, the attendance is another story!

 

This is nothing but your wishful thinking. Your own admission:

"Plus, the few that watch it are very PASSIONATE sports viewers"

Now, your admit that only few watched the CL. So what if many Americans side with some Euro teams? large % don't watch the games on TV!!! That led to your confession:

"the few that watch it"...

Yeah? and how come these "a lot of people" are translated to "the few that watch it..."?

Not at all. Have you ever seen ESPN hyping spelling bee, strongest men competition, or bass fishing? Why hyping something when only a few that watch?

Yep, it's another story. As far as televising CL games on ESPN2 is concerned, the result is "the few that watch it"...

So what's more reflective of interests of CL games televised on ESPN2?

- attendance of CW teams during the summer (dog days of the sports calender)?
- the few that actually watch CL games on ESPN2?

Care to answer that?

 

Yep. Ramble, ramble and ramble. It's extremely annoying to listen over and over to people constantly trying to create a vicious cycle out of this discussion. I rest my case!

 

Does TiVo/VCR recordings count in the Nielsen ratings? Do bars have Nielsen devices? And again, Going to a bar at 2:30PM also requires that you LIVE NEAR One where you can actually go, mind you skipping work/school, to see these games.

 

Yeah, it's really annoying for someone who's ignorance to the American TV landscape keep blasting the same hot air again and again and again and again.

Now that he got his own claims contradicting each other, he has to rest his case?

I won't bet on it. I'll see you keep bringing up trash like

- CL big games are big in America
- many Americans are interested in CL telecasts on ESPN2,
- many Americans will be attracted to CL telecasts had it been hyped on Sportscenter,

blah, blah, blah....

YOu rest your case? you have been trying to revive your trash now and then for almost 3 months. Why change now?

 

Does Nielsen device only track the channel on TV? not on VCR?

No matter what, when I filled out the Nielsen survey (by hand) years ago, I always filled out the FSW programs that I taped during the day, not the programs that I watch on TV (which is taped recording most of the time).

Tivo is also trying to link up with Nielsen to track viewers.

Not in terms of Nielsen, but people going to bars mainly for live sporting events.

Yep, and you know, I live on the west coast, not the east coast.

On the west coast, the live CL telecast time is a good excuse for a long lunch: 11:45 to 13:35.

 

Well, i am a native american, i never liked soccer until 94 world cup and i started watching it, i never got into the mls, and i started to identify with the european teams, because they have the best players and i want to see the best players in the world ... and i dont want to watch them in spanish... my problem is why not show the CL instead of a repeat show of bash fishing??

 

Easy, two reasons:

1) ESPN wants the CL as the inventory for ESPN Deportes.
2) Bass fishing offers 8 more minutes of ad times than a soccer telecast per hour; that's 16 minutes per soccer game.

 

The dirty secret is that everyone in the TV industry knows that the Nielsen system sucks %@*&, but yet they're all willing to put up with it and avoid some of the real dirt (and financial impacts) that might come out of reforms. If television media had the same tracking accuracy and accountability of, say, Web banner advertising, the advertisers' compensation structure and demand for detailed accuracy would be a complete headache for the networks.

Of course, the current Nielsen system is an aging band-aid that's ready to fall off. Just no one is willing to stick their necks out yet with a substitute.

Until then, expect the same kind of b.s. to drive programming decisions.

But the honest truth, relevant to this thread, is that Americans love poker more than they love a Champions League final. The only solution, IMO, is to have ESPN give up domestic U.S. rights to broadcast so that someone else who would actually use them can air more.

 

We have been saying this all along, and I hope this happens sooner than later!

 

Because even if the bass fishing re-run sells ZERO targeted ads, it still makes at least $16000 more per 2-hour block in generic untargeted ad revenue compared to an extra UEFA Champions League telecast on ESPN2.

ESPN always has some fad programming available to fill dead time. X Games were the rage in the mid 1990's, then Great Outdoor Games became the low budget programming of choice when ESPN discovered that big air dog tricks drew 3 times the ratings compared to big air bikes, blades, and 'boards.

The fad programming of choice for ESPN in 2004 is of course tournament poker, tournament poker, and more tournament poker. Reruns of the 2003 World Series of Poker at 4am in the morning drew up to an 0.4 rating, which was unheard off in the TV business prior to the start of the TV poker fad. Binion's was already an absolute zoo when I was there for half a day on April 25. Binion's will be completely out of control come May 22 when main event of the 2004 WSOP starts.

Eventually, UEFA Champions League will air in English exclusively on Setanta Pub Channel in the US, and in Spanish exclusively on ESPN Deportes.

(I expect UEFA and Team AG to cut out ESPN and sell English-language US TV rights to Setanta Sport directly starting with the 2006-2007 season. UEFA and Team AG want to cut ESPN out as the middleman.)

It is only a matter of time before ESPN2 dumps UEFA Champions League entirely. There are much more efficient ways for ESPN to utilize the 30 hours on ESPN2 currently devoted to UEFA Champions League.

 

Well, maybe UEFA will dump ESPN first!
I wouldn't mind paying money to watch high level soccer. Bars here in LA are crowded when games are not shown on ESPN2. I wonder how many people take time off work to watch poker reruns (no disrespect to those who love the game).
As another poster already said, it seems better if another network handles the CL. Maybe they'll do a better job of hyping games like FSW does, and possibly increase viewership. I hope they keep it as it is, with no ads interruption during match play!

 

Again, no one ever takes time off to watch TV poker because poker telecasts are NEVER shown live. They are aired on tape several weeks after the event so that the commentary can be added with hole card information.

People do take time off from work to PLAY professional tournament poker. Of the 2000+ players expected to take part in the 2004 WSOP main event, about 1500 have full-time jobs.

The only other network that might have UEFA CL in the future will be networks owned and operated by Setanta Sport. Even if UEFA and TEAM AG decide to cut out ESPN, ESPN still has first and last rights of refusal to MATCH any offer by Setanta Sport or any other network.

FOX is NOT interested in paying an arm and a leg for the rights when it doesn't have to.

FOX Sports World only needs to have English Premier League to justify its existence.

I do NOT expect to see UEFA CL show up on FOX Sports World in the next 5 years. ESPN might let Setanta have the US TV rights, but ESPN certainly will not let FOX touch it.

 

I'm talking about the audience here, not the players. Anyway, I careless what it takes to watch CL. If they grant it to Setanta, so be it. As long as we get a chance to watch more games, then that's all good! Hopefully, if Setanta ends up getting the rights, they will end up showing more games.

 

Especially since FOX has the ONE product ESPN REALLY wants: Copa Libertadores since that means Club America and Chivas which should mean subscriptions for ESPN Deportes.

Champions League is simply place-holding until ESPN is in a position to bid for Copa Libertadores (even though FOX has the Latin America TV rights).

The PRIMARY aims of ESPN Deportes are to save on taxes and to show AMERICAN SPORTS in Spanish (SAP doesn't sell ads and Telemundo has only limited NBA coverage. There should be a decent market for MLB in Spanish).

 

The advertising business currently use Nielsen to pump billions of $$$ into the industry. If you *think* that's flaw, so be it. I mean, people with billions $$$ don't mind the minor flaw of such a system. Afterall, no society is perfect.

How can that be a solution? ESPN Corp. is making tons of money by getting the U.S. rights of the game. Do you think

getting the U.S. rights of the game == putting all the games on ESPN2?

I mean, Kotto Bass has been arguing for 2 months based on that naive assumption, which in principal thinks that ESPN2 is the only TV outlet in this country, but no one else should be as naive...

 

It's funny that ESPN Deportes have been showing 7-8 games per match day but you totally ignore that fact. I come to wonder you just post absurd messages about ESPN just to pump up traffic here...

Afterall Setanta Sports is a satellite channel available on Ku band (T5) that right now, and only available to pubs. It's so funny that you would rather have Setanta televising 7-8 games to pubs (on a Ku band satellite that you have no clue about) than ESPN Deportes showing 7-8 games (on cable systems in cities with large Latino population, which is where you are living right now).

See, your real objective is not about watching the games. You are really getting personal against ESPN because your arguments in the past two months had been smashed to pieces...

 

Well, a channel "only available in pubs" is still more accessible than a channel "only available in 1% of the country". I mean, Nevada Smiths alone (ie. one pub) is accessible to more people than ESPN deportes.

 

Let's see, 1% of the household with TV is about 1M households, which is between 1.5M and 2M people. If a pub can sit 200 people, how many pubs are needed to sit 1.5M and 2M people.

7.5K to 10K.

Setanta used to post all their pubs on their web-site. Now, you have to enter a zip code to find the pub closest to you. And each time they only list 3. Nevada Smith is not even on the New York list. But no sweat, I can easily get the pub list from a Setanta web-site from late 2001. This is the list of pubs that subscribe to the UEFA CL games back in 2001:

http://web.archive.org/web/20010814055614/setanta.com/main/navenues/index.jsp

Click on the "UEFA Champions League"

There were only 35 pubs in the entire USA that got Setanta signal for the CL. Now, you may try to convince us how 1.5M people can squeeze into 35 pubs. Go ahead, try us...

And I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Try the list of pubs that get the EPL signal from Setanta then, which is way more popular than the CL. Click on the "English Premier League". The answer - 92 pubs.

Still, how can 1.5M people can squeeze into 92 pubs? you tell us...

Or you can tell us that in the past 3 years, CL soccer has become so popular in the U.S.A. that Setanta's client base for CL close-circuit telecast jumped from 35 pubs to 7500 pubs. Now, don't be shy...

In other words, your feeble attempt to put down ESPN (for not showing more than 1 CL on ESPN2) and boosting Setanta fail again. I mean, as long as I am here, your cheap stunt won't work...

 

ESPN lately has not had a good track record with broadcasting CL to the masses. We all know that! Well, I keep saying I speak out on behalf of other fans, not just me here in a Latino populated area. Until Deportes reaches most of us, it's not looking good for ESPN in my books, unlike our good oll FSW. If ESPN feels CL belongs to Deportes, well, what can I say?

 

Are you really this stupid or are you just trying to play devil's advocate?

1% of population has ACCESS to ESPN deportes. In other words, one million people have the OPTION to get that channel or not to get that channel. Doesn't mean they all will subscribe. 99% of people are out of luck!

Similarily, everyone living in NYC (16 million) has the OPTION to go to Nevada's! Doesn't mean they all will, but ->here's the important part-< EVERYONE WHO WANTS TO WILL BE ABLE TO (watch any CL game offered by Setanta)!

Now is 16M greater than or less than 1.5 to 2M??

Now I'm sure you're gonna revert to "Ranger-logic" to prove that:
2M > 16M.

But keep in mind, the number is not 16M but really much much larger (ie. all the people within, say, a 30-minute drive of one of those 35+ Setanta CL pubs).

 

Are you really that stupid that you'll do anything to bash ESPN?

Oh, so one million household (not people) have the option to get ESPN Deportes. How many people can watch CL in Setanta pubs?

I mean, you are using a meaningless criteria "have the options" to try to divert the whole argument, meaning

the reach of CL games on Setanta vs the reach of CL games on ESPN Deportes.

MSG has a capacity of ~20000. How many people have the options to watch the Knicks in MSG? you would answer the whole New York metro population, but that's a totally meaningless number. The capacity limit of the arena would render the "number of people have the option" meaningless.

Not at all, because the capacity limit restricts that option to 400 (your number). In other words, 15999600 people are out of luck.

That's a blatant lie. The 401st person who wants to watch a CL game canNOT see it.

what does that have to do with your argument? Is 1+1=2?

Not at all, I'll just use the pub's capacity limit to kill your argument.

I don't worry about it, unless you can tell us how the 401st person can watch the game in Nevada Smith. If even the 401st person can't watch it, how can the 402nd person have that option? how can the 403rd? 404th? 1000th? 100000th? 1000000th? 10000000th? 11000000th? 16000000th?

Go ahead, tell us...