"Whoa, yes they call him The Streak" (WWWWW) - The Arsenal vs Southampton Gameday Thread!

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by And_ROOS, Apr 6, 2018.

  1. michaec

    michaec Member

    Arsenal
    England
    May 24, 2001
    Essex
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I just hear it all the time, nothing specifically in this thread. I think I saw deadelus post above about how Ozil would/should be "rocking" the no. 10 position if the team was set up right and it set me off! You have no idea of the stick he gets from certain sections of the crowd at the ground.
     
  2. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    There is more to it than being overplayed at a young age. At 17 Fabregas played 46 games for Arsenal. At 17 Renaldo played 31 games for Sporting and at 18 he played 40 games for United. Wilshere didn't play close to a full season until he turned 18, the same age at which Messi played his first full season at Barcelona. Some bodies are going to break down no matter how young they start playing for the first team on a regular basis, see Diaby. His playing style may also be a factor, his tendency to over dribble invites contact, though Messi and Renaldo also invited plenty of contact.
     
  3. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gotcha. I was just asking because I didn't really see it in this thread. But I believe you about what you hear at the grounds. Even at the pub here where I usually watch matches, you'll hear a "lazy Ozil" or a "not up for it Ozil" comment. My response to them on the occasions that I'm annoyed enough to say anything is usually along the lines of "you've never actually played this sport at anything beyond elementary school level, have you?"
     
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  4. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Jack is probably done now, he needs a fresh start

    We should keep Ramsey and bring in 2 cms and use xhaka for depth

    ............auba
    Ozil .................mikhi
    ......Ramsey...seri
    ..............:Meyer

    For example could be effective

    I personally want to sign sessegnon from Fulham who can play lb and lw

    Maybe sign lemina from Southampton as cm depth and sell el nenney?
     
  5. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My answer is simple: The last EPL match he played (Stoke) he was given MOTM by the fans on Arsenal.com. (although other pundits gave it to Rambo or PEA) Anyway, if Ozil gets more MOTM awards it will (a) shut people up, and (b) help us be a more successful team.
     
  6. KozIsCul

    KozIsCul Member+

    Feb 6, 2005
    Yeah, this. I thought that, once he recovered from injury, even if he never got any better he'd at least be a good role player for us. But he's not, based on yesterday at least, and we should just move on.

    And from there, I was thinking of just how urgent it is for Wenger to go. In terms of the number of players Arsenal really improved (in terms of instruction, motivation, training, role), it's really really thin out there. To my mind, there's AMN, and then Bellerin (who of course has since regressed). There's many more players who've gotten worse, of which Jack is one.

    This may not be reflected in the results, in that we've dropped as far we can go. We'll always have access to certain players like PEA, Alexis, Ozil, etc. that Watford won't, and those players will generate some results for us. But it does affect the financial situation, and Kroenke should fire Wenger for that if nothing else. We'll be buying players for 50MM GBP and selling them for 15MM GBP as long as Wenger is here.
     
  7. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    You are totally right about that. But that still makes my point that you have to be careful with young talents. Wilshere was probably going to breakdown eventually, but he was still played way too much that we only got that one season out of him.
     
  8. Super Llama

    Super Llama Member+

    May 21, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I'm definitely of the mindset that we have basically no good/reliable CBs now, after running Kos ragged for however many years. It's truly shocking.

    However, part of the reason we have no good CBs is our defensive mindset, and how we ask our CBs to do more than at any other club in the top leagues. We expect one senior CB to babysit the other, and when that doesn't happen our CBs make frequent, basic errors. It's entirely an indictment of the lack of quality defensive/tactical coaching and lack of player development at every level.

    It behooves us to not shit on our CBs individually because the root of the problem is systemic. I could see any of Holding, Mustafi, or Chambers being competent in, say, Sean Dyche's squad. The fault lies with Wenger. It sounds hyperbolic or polemic to say, but I really feel like criticism of individual players who play under Wenger is kinda irrelevant now, because they're not getting close to the same level of coaching, development, and support that more than half of
     
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  9. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Mustafi's issues arent mindset.

    That guy does not read danger well. He is the new Vermaelen.
     
  10. daedalus

    daedalus Member+

    Apr 24, 2004
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    what in the holy name of actual fuck are you talking about? here are the actual words i said:
    where in that fucking sentence do you see me criticise ozil? where in the fucking sentence do you see me saying ANY "if the team was set up right"? PLEASE FUCKING TELL ME WHERE. i have bitched for fucking YEARS about the fact that i don't feel like wilshere has the skillset to be a 10 and should not have been wearing it and ozil should be since he's the best damn 10 on the motherfucking planet.

    please go through ANY of my posts and find a single ********ing one where i am "knocking" ozil. when people were gargling sanchez's nuts and saying ozil wasn't doing enough - because, y'know the almighty body language and all - i was saying, yo, different people/players have different looks, ozil is amazing. ALWAYS. because i ********ing adore ozil. i liked the bastard BEFORE he went to real and we were supposedly sniffing around him. i liked the bastard when he was AT real. i was fucking thrilled when he came. and i am STILL excited he is here. so go eat a buffet of dicks before calling ME the fuck out for "knocking ozil".
     
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  11. daedalus

    daedalus Member+

    Apr 24, 2004
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    no, dude. i am totally with you. wenger wants his CB to do things that only very few specific people can do successfully - play high, be great on the ball, and recover when the opponent hits the ball over the top. i dig it.

    my point with mustafi isn't that he isn't good - or that the system isn't bad - but that he needs specific partners - and i agree with you, a better system - to excel. as prince made the comparison, like vermaelen before him, mustafi is the hustle-and-bustle action-oriented type who is not about reading the game and reacting and, to me, the number of those guys benefit from having a partner who will direct them where and when to go and when to sit back. toure, for example, had campbell who made him better. i think, if we were able to field mertesacker with either vermaelen or mustafi, they would done well.

    i have never knocked chambers - i leave that particular torch to northbank. i recognise that chambers is limited - his lateral agility and turning radius is nearly to mertesacker's standard but i think he is more than serviceable/solid as a centreback. he gets exposed as a right-back against faster and trickier wingers but, inside, he works. some of the same people who hate chambers adores holding who, while i like, i don't hold their opinion that he is the savior. yes, he is more athletic and, thus, can make do recovery runs better but he still suffers from the same thing chambers does: they're kids. honestly, i think both should be out on loan where they are playing everyday and we bring in a veteran towards the end of their career to be the 3rd/4th CB.
     
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  12. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I think he'd be fine next to a CB who communicates well and tells him where to be. But him next to Koscielny is a disaster.
     
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  13. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Most cbs would be better next to a communicator though

    He’s soft, not quick and prone to brain farts
     
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  14. Tonerl

    Tonerl Member+

    May 10, 2006
    Beavercreek, OH
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That is very harsh...

    On Vermaelen.
     
  15. chjoak

    chjoak Member

    Jun 17, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agree with this. Would like nothing more than to see both of them loaned to a club where they can start. Even better if they could start together.

    We have been linked with Sokratis. If we landed him, our CB core would be much stronger (Kos, Sokartis & Mustafi). Add a right footed Nacho (backup CB & RB) and the entire D core for next season would be pretty solid.
     
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  16. Super Llama

    Super Llama Member+

    May 21, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I guess we're debating whether that's a coachable trait?
     
  17. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    that was fun watching @daedalus get his knickers in a twist. I guess we all know where he stands on Ozil now. :D
     
  18. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Justice is served. Elneny's red card was overturned.

    The only question I have is whether we had to appeal that, or if the review board just does that proactively out of fairness?
     
  19. daedalus

    daedalus Member+

    Apr 24, 2004
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    my stance on ozil has never changed, feel free to look it up. i've been corrected or told i'm wrong before and that's cool. my footie knowledge is weak compared to a number of people on this board (or, more accurately, most?). i acknowledge that, always have. i've disagreed with various people on various topic before - including you - and that's cool. that's what these things are for.

    but being shit on falsely gets on my nerve.
     
  20. daedalus

    daedalus Member+

    Apr 24, 2004
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    while you're right, most would be better next to a communicator. but, specifically, someone like mustafi, vermaelen, or toure needs to be paired with one to be most effective. (maybe at all effective?)

    whereas you have someone like koscielny who, while he would also benefit from pairing with a communicator/general, he can operate just fine on his own.
     
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  21. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    You really, really, really need to work on your reading comprehension. Daedalus was saying that Wilshere should not wear the no. 10, Ozil should.

    Some fans do give Ozil stick. Those people are wrong. Their opinions should be disregarded.
     
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  22. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Apparently michaec misread your post. I don't think he was trying to shit on you, but I guess I could be wrong about that. Honestly when I read your post it seemed a bit ambiguously worded, so I didn't really bother to try to figure it out.

    And honestly I didn't know (or probably more accurately, remember) how much you liked Ozil. But I do now. And that's all I was alluding to. Unintentionally he really got under your skin and you did a very "robust" job of stating your position.

    All good. Keep on keepin on.
     
  23. Gunning4Chelsea

    Gunning4Chelsea Member+

    Aug 2, 2005
    chicago
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wilshere topped out at a very early age
    Like jenas ... Rodwell... Barkley ... and most overrated English midfield hot shots
     
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  24. Gunning4Chelsea

    Gunning4Chelsea Member+

    Aug 2, 2005
    chicago
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So mustafi would be serviceable if he played with a maldini?

    mustafi is simply not tactically aware ... no matter how much band holding another cb does
    Look at that “clearance “ last Thursday
     
  25. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think folks are getting wound up about this more than is warranted. I think michaec just misread the post, which is why I posed the question directly to him "who's knocking Ozil?" But there's not a person on here who hasn't misread a post at some point, so let's put down the torches and pitchforks and get back to building that golden Ozil statue. ;)
     

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