Who is the most overrated player ever, Zidane or Ronaldhino?

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by riflex, Dec 19, 2013.

  1. Lewa9

    Lewa9 Member

    Feb 23, 2014
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund


    Bergkamp is overrated in England, he not is even in top 100 best players ever, for me. There are a lot of strikers better than him in the last 20 years.
    Ronaldinho is by far one of most overrated player ever, he does not deserve as much consideration, he had only a great year. He was not consistent in Cl or even in World cup.
    For me Zidane, Ronaldo, Maldini ( the best player in his role) are in top 15/20 best players ever.
    They deserve this position, Ronaldhino perhaps in top 50/60, he is massively overrated by fans on youtube.
    I think that even some of legends of the past such as Cruyff, Pele and Maradona are overrated, everything is very subjective.


    It 's very easy to exaggerate the figure of players like Pelè, Di Stefano and other grandparents of the past, who played in eras relatively poor and uncompetitive, when the most of the players, that time were not professionals, and the defenses were pathetic. I think that Maradona is one of most overrated.
    The fans of Maradona say, that he has won, all by itself.
    Ok, why if he won all by itself, he won only a Argentinian league in 10 years?
    Why if he won all by itself, has not won almost nothing in Spain?
    Barcelona have won much more without him, than with him(liga 1984-85)
    If he won all by itself, why he was so poor in the world cup 1982?
    Why he has never won a American Cup?
    He won two league titles with a Great team, in Serie A, where it was not so difficult, because teams like Verona, Roma, Sampdoria have won their few titles.
    In the end he was just lucky, he played in one of less competitive periods of European football.
     
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  2. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    #52 JamesBH11, Mar 2, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2014
    Sorry but your comment is a Clear example of YOUNG POSTER who lacked of a lot in football history ...

    1- Bergkamp was a GREAT talent (who happened to fail to adapt at Inter - due to misuse and tactics) = very similar case of Henry when he was bought to Juve form Monaco in late 90's. Arsene Wenger did a GREAT job to take them two to EPL and MADE A NEW DYNASTY of Arsenal (98-06) = constant TOP2 best teams in that long years SHARING with ManU.
    GUESS what? Bergkamp and Henry were the KEY players for that success ...

    Some STATS you should know before making silly comment:
    - Bergkamp was 3rd BEST assister EPL ALL TIME 92ass/314games (behind Giggs and Lampard but they played > twice number of games Berglamp had)
    - Bergkamp was playmaker of Arsenal great: 3xEPL+5x 2nd best in their best 8years: 98-06

    2- Pele and Di Stefano?
    Since you do not know NOTHING about them, your comment is just pure speculation base on non fact without history backgorund!

    1- NO ONE came close to Pele achievement and performance for both club and country = EVER SINCE.
    2- Di STefano was KEY member of the great success of Real Madrid (best club ever) for winning many UCL and liga ...
     
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  3. puertorricane

    puertorricane Red Card

    Feb 4, 2012
    Carolina PR
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Country:
    Brazil
    1. Beckham
    2. Bale
    3. Pique
    4. Casillas
    5. Gerrard




    []__[]
     
  4. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Agree ....
    But Pique and Cassilas are both OK in their ranks or expectation ... Ithink
     
  5. puertorricane

    puertorricane Red Card

    Feb 4, 2012
    Carolina PR
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Country:
    Brazil
    When Spain and barcelona was winning everything Pique was considered the best CB in the world. We have seen he is not even close to it and just benefited from playing with great players around. Also benefited from possession football that hided his defensive woes. Same goes for Casillas although i think he's a lot better but people when overboard with praises for him when Spain won and because he broke into Real Madrid really young.


    []__[]
     
  6. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    thatwas just one year 2012 or so ... right now everyone knows Thiago Silva is the best CB right now (or since last 3,4 years) LOL

    and I can tell, he is not even better than Aldair of 90's (within Brazil), let along Nesta or Canavaro ... of 2000's.

    Cassilas deserved a high rate since he had a long years in consistency of worldclass. he might not be in TOP20 best GK all time but easily in my TOP20-30
     
  7. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    IFFHS Century Election #28
    World Soccer Greatest Player of the 20th Century #58

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    agree ... too .... Milla will probably make my low TOP100 at BEST attempt
     
  9. Jaweirdo

    Jaweirdo Member+

    Aug 19, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    there is no way michael jordan is overrated
     
  10. Jaweirdo

    Jaweirdo Member+

    Aug 19, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
  11. Edhardy

    Edhardy Member+

    Sep 4, 2013
    Nairobi, Kenya
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    It's easy to criticise guys like Pique without looking at things contextually. Yes Barca dominate possession and defend from the front (at least in their prime)... but they also commit so many players forward including both fullbacks ever since Abidal left. When Pique is faced by attackers it's usually him and Mascherano and if they are lucky Busquets. Not many of these best defenders face that. I'd like to see Cannavaro, Nesta, Maldini etc at their prime playing in teams that commited just about everyone except the centre backs forward. I remember Cannavaro looking crap for Madrid under Schuster's attacking style, so too Nesta when Leonardo employed his 4-2-fantasia, ultra attacking system. Nesta used to get run ragged.
     
  12. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Maldini had that godlike status in the club that he basically demanded a deep line by the defence. Otherwise he would get exposed.
    An ageing Nesta under Leonardo is indeed similar, just like 'old' Cannavaro.
     
  13. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    I agree somewhat with your analogy about Pique and Canavaro. But you're a bit harsh on Nesta (getting older in those days) and he was not near as BAD as Canavaro for Real ...

    (it's like someone might take a few games where Maldini looked miserable with speedy R9 serieA98-99 or Henry euro2000 to say he was not that great!) since those are very very FEW games ... (and players had some bad days naturally)

    Back to Pique, he is surely among very good CB now a day, but he also got the ADVANTAGE that OFTEN Barca and SPAIN NT holding the balls of >70% then their opponents. SO, in the REST of sub 20+ % of time on ball that Opponent had to start attacking back if they can (?) , it's OBVIOUSLY a bit easier for Pique (or Busquet or Puyol ) to react ...
     
  14. Edhardy

    Edhardy Member+

    Sep 4, 2013
    Nairobi, Kenya
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Indeed, for example Cannavaro was the Berlin Wall in summer of 2006, by December of that year he was being made to look average. Nesta too under Leonardo, yet the next season under Allegri he was back to being the graceful Nesta. Other examples include John Terry under Villas-Boas' high line defence and attack oriented tactics, yet this year under Mourinho he looks the part. Walter Samuel under Mourinho them subsequently under Benitez and Leonardo...
    Perhaps the criticisms leveled at Pique and Mascherano are a tad unfair.
     
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  15. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Rating a player performance one has to REFER his games VERSUS his TEAM playing at same time.

    For example:
    - If the team play well (at time) and only him exposed = obvious weakest link (like Samuel in Real Galacticos 04-05, or partially Canavaro 07 ...
    - Now if the team are struggling and also that player struggling - not so b=obvious to criticize his performance per se
     
  16. Sir_Artur

    Sir_Artur Member

    Nov 21, 2014
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    Germany
    1. Diego Armando Maradona is the most overrated player in history. Let exmplain:

    Maradona is so overrated that his fanboys and overall media regularly degrade his teammates so that Maradona could be seen as good as he has been overrated. Both Napoli and Argentine 86 is degraded,classified as average and even outsider team so that Maradona can be mythologised. Napoli was a rich club of 80s, they were Manchester City of 80s, they were PSG and Monaco of 80s.

    Argentine had 4 or 5 best players of several tournament of the same year, it was probably better than any squad of the same tournament.

    Besides being mythologised as such, Maradona individually was never complete and comparable to other players like Pele, Cruyff and Beckenbauer. Maradona lacked too many skills other greats had yet he is compared and even considered #1 ever based on the "mythology" his fanboys artificially created.

    Maradona was great player, he was astonishing but never as good as Beckenbauer, Cruyff or Pele. Anyone who thinks he is worthy challenger to the top 3 is either blind idiot or biased. No matter how great he is, he is nowhere as good as Beckenbauer, let alone Cruyff or Pele.


    2. Leonel Messi:

    Even though he was a great dribbling and a playmaker, he is way overrated like Maradona. His first 10 years of his career, in which he established his case, corresponded to one of the sh,ttest leagues ever. His team's main opponent only had 2 good seasons during that period, in that period his team was so good that they destroyed their main opponent with scores like 5-0 and 2-6, away victory. The league he played in was a rather 1 and sometimes 2 horse race up untill now.

    Even after 2012, their main rival became champion, next season they were leading the league with 18 points difference. Messi played and shone in an era in which the gap between his team and others were overwhelmingly big, like Maradona he was just a good dribbler and playmaker, not a total footballer, not a complete player.

    Did not achieve anything with NT, he always flopped at the biggest times of NT matches, scored againt minnows like Iran and Bosnia in WCs and disappeared in main knock out stages and still was awarded with best player of the tournament award. Despite all, he is considered #1 ever or one of the greats ever.

    Anyone who thinks Messi is the best ever or something like that is either biased or a clear idiot. He is nowhere as good as Cruyff, let alone Pele. Not to mention he played with 1 of the top 2 clubs of the most unbalanced and weak era of football.

    3. CR7: Teamwise and leaguewise he is just like Messi but individually worse than Messi. Although he played in a normal league at the beginning of his career, his case was established with probably the most sh.ttiest league ever. Not to mention he played with 1 of the top 2 clubs of the most unbalanced and weak era of football.


    ps.: I could have given longer arguements about why these 3 are the most overrated 1. Maybe one day I will initiate a thread about them.
     
  17. Sir_Artur

    Sir_Artur Member

    Nov 21, 2014
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    Germany
    Garrincha, in my view, is the 4th most overrated after 1. Diego Armando Maradona 2. Leonel Andres Messi . 3. Cristiano Ronaldo dos santos Aveiros.

    Pele is probably the most underrated one, or may be one of the most underrated ones. He is known as "a striker only," even FIFA.com describes him as such (article: Pele and Maradona 2 very different number 10s) while in fact he was not even a stiker, he was a playmaker, classic number 10, arguably the most complete player ever who was good even as a goalkeeper, who was good at tackling and he was arguably one of the pioneers of total football.
    Not to mention he was a great dribbler. Current People know him as "just a tap in open goal striker" which makes him either the most underrated one or one of the most underrated ones considering his actual traits.
     
  18. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

    Jun 27, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Zidane was a born winner and gamechanger. He was the heartbeat of his teams. He's exactly where he deserves to be, if not higher.

    Ronaldinho is a judgement call. His peak was short, but almost unrivalled. And he truely was a magician, unlike CR7 or Messi. And for that alone he gets extra points in my book.
     
  19. robnycus

    robnycus Member+

    Jun 28, 2010
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Those two were great players.. Nothing about being overrated.
     
  20. PMFmdf

    PMFmdf Member

    May 15, 2016
    Nowadays its obvious.The Title of most overrated ever belongs to 5 times ballon d'or winner Cristiano Ronaldo, who actually only deserved this award in 08 and 14 judging by his individual performances.
     
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  21. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

    Jun 27, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    The same can be said about Messi. He only deserved 2-3 of those Balon d'Ors.
     
  22. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Which one did he not deserve?

    What I don't like about the Messi/Ronaldo Ballon D'or debate is, quite often, people just say why they don't deserve it but, rarely can they prove that someone else deserved it more. I've seen a few that does a good job of that, but not enough.

    Ronaldo and Messi are already the most scrutinised footballers of all time.
     
  23. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

    Jun 27, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Like the FIFA Balon d'Or award he wouldn't even make the top 3 of, had the rules been the same as in the previous year?
     
  24. jared9999

    jared9999 Member+

    Jan 3, 2005
    Pachuca, Hidalgo
    Club:
    Club América
    Country:
    Mexico
    2010 Xavi deserved it.
     
  25. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I actually agree with this one.
     

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