Who is the most overrated player ever, Zidane or Ronaldhino?

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by riflex, Dec 19, 2013.

  1. XxXsoccer_fanXxX

    Aug 22, 2013
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I guess there are those who say Zidane was overrated, and there are others who say he is underrated (people who hype him up to best player of all time). Zidane is neither.

    Zidane can definitely be in the Top 10 of all time time. He had an amazing time with Juventus. After his move to Juventus, he won two Serie A's, an Intercontinental Cup, and finished as a runner up in the CL, losing to Borussia Dortmund in the final. The 1997-98 season was a good success too. It was his second Scudetto, and they also finished runners up to Real Madrid in the Champions League for a third consecutive time, with Zidane's help. Continuing on in his club career, he later moved to Real Madrid, (world record transfer fee) where he played a pivotal role in Madrid winning the 2002 CL, and provided the game winner in a fantastic top corner volley with his weaker foot at the highest level possible of the game. He helped Real Madrid to win the 2003 La Liga, and after that, he finished his final season at Real Madrid without trophies, but was second top scorer and second top assister behind Ronaldo and Beckham.

    His international career could be arguably even better than his club career. His World Cup 1998 was average, but into the finals he gave one of the best individual final performances. He created many chances, and also scored a BRACE in the final with two headed goals, and also provided many clear goal chances but their striker was, simply put, horrible. He then won Euro 2000, scoring a memorable goal against Portugal in the quarter finals, and the winning goal against Spain in the semis. He was named player of the tournament by UEFA. His 2002 World Cup was a failure, as was his teams. Euro 2004 was a moderate tournament, he scored two goals against England to win against them, but was eliminated in the quarter finals by eventual winners Greece in a surprise win.

    His WC 2006, coming out of a retirement, was amazing. He assisted many goals in the opening stages of the tournament, and scored the penalty kick to lead them to the finals, where he also put them up seven minutes into the game with a penalty kick. He later received the famous red card we all know, and for all we know, could've won the WC for France with his level of skill in penalties in tense situations. However, Materazzi become hated world wide after the truth became known, and it was a disappointing end to a great players career.

    Gathering from this, I can clearly say that Zidane has been there done that, scored in two WC finals, been in 4 CL finals, and scored in one, and has won various important trophies. He has done it for club and country, and as such is considered one of the greatest of all time.

    Besides that, deeper analysis into his game reveals he helps his team when he plays and also shows front page performances, while also performing from the backstage.

    "He thinks in one second and does it the next. He is a special player, one who is original and exceptional. He creates space where there is none. Only the very best players can do that. No matter where he gets the ball or how it comes to him, Zidane can get out of trouble. His imagination and his technique are amazing." -Edgar Davids.
     
  2. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Zidane was never under rated PERIOD
     
    leadleader repped this.
  3. leadleader

    leadleader Member+

    Aug 19, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Juventus actually won the Champions League just the year before Zidane joined, and with Zidane, Juventus did not do any better, Juventus simply continued dominating. Same thing with Real Madrid. Real Madrid won the Champions League in 2000 (without Zidane), and Zidane joined Real Madrid in 2001, Real Madrid was a team that could win with or without Zidane. And I don't mean to disregard Zidane's accomplishments, but I want to make it clear that Zidane did not win the Champions League single-handedly.

    I'm not sure if Zidane makes it to the top 10 players of all time. A great player, but in my opinion he is indeed overrated. A lot of people say that he is overrated, so maybe there is some truth to the persistent rumors? Still, though, a great player first and foremost.
     
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  4. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Country:
    Argentina
    Exactly,

    Juventus in 5 seasons before Zidane 1 league and 1 UCL > with him 2 league titles.
    Real Madrid in 5 seasons before Zidane 2 leagues and 2 UCL's > Galactico's with him 1 league and 1 UCL title.

    Hardly stuff of a all time great.
     
  5. XxXsoccer_fanXxX

    Aug 22, 2013
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I understand where you are coming from, but teams that have recently won in the CL have a reputation of not doing well the next year. Of course, Juventus still had an amazing team, but Zidane did help them. It's not as if Zidane was just feeding on Juventus success. It was a combination of Zidane, Alessandro Del Piero, and Fillipo Inzaghi. He was the main playmaker, and as such, played a pivotal role.

    Likewise, with Real Madrid he scored the winning goal of the CL, and you cannot discount that. Maybe Real Madrid would've won it without him, but scoring the winning goal...that's something VERY important. There is a chance that Levurkusen could've won it in the penalty kicks.

    I've proved that Zidane has had a successful club career, and I guess you can't argue with his international career, which is even greater than his club career. Could we agree to place him in the Top 15, considering his combined club career and international career? He is kind of the person that has been there, done that, but also creates space for his team mates with every touch of the ball. He just makes everyone around him better. Personally, I'd place him at the No. 10 spot.

    If you're talking to me, did I say he was? I'm just saying some people, who think he is the greatest of all time, call him underrated.
     
  6. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Yeah I might misread your post.
    But all I am saying is that Zidane was neither over rated nor under rated. In fact I think he was a bit "OVER HYPED" (not quite over rated though) in a sense he won most big tourneys and people put him a bit TOO CLOSE to Pele/Maradona/Cruijff/Di Stefano ... and he was NOT up there in skills, in effectiveness of teh games ...
     
  7. XxXsoccer_fanXxX

    Aug 22, 2013
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    That's the point, though. He didn't have the most direct contribution to his team, but it happened behind the scenes, ex. Xavi, Xabi Alonso, Paul Scholes etc. And he also contributed direct goals and assists to his team (two goals in WC final, also various penalties to win trophies in very tense situations) that combined makes hima great player.

    However, I do agree that he is partly overrated, but it is wrong to say that Zidane was not one of the best in the history after the important things he has done.

    With that logic, you can say Messi is around 10th in worlds current best players, considering that Barcelona's system fits him perfectly.
     
  8. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Zidane was surely better player in techniques and skills than those names to start with...

    Now besides the clear TOP5, 6 bests in Pele, Maradona Cruiff distefano Puskas or even Garrincha ...
    In a more apples to apples comparison , Zidane vs Didi, Platini, Kopa, Rivelino Zico Socrates , Laudrup, Riquelme, Netzer, Bobby Charlton, Rivaldo , Ronaldinho .... Gullit Bergkamp Hagi ...

    And often we would see Zidane was RATED above MOST, and only behind just Platini and perhaps Sir Bobby
     
  9. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    #34 BocaFan, Jan 21, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2014
    lol @ the idea that Luis Suarez is overrated. He is highly underrated. For instance, Suarez didn't even finish in the top 10 in Ballon d'Or voting while Neymar who scored just 6 La Liga goals and 3 meaningless CL goals finished 5th.

    Another example: 2010 World Cup. Forlan was labelled the guy who carried Uruguay to the semis, meanwhile Suarez actually got the more important and more skillful goals. Without Suarez they finish 2nd in the group behind Mexico and lose to Korea in the R16 (granted they wouldn't have even played Korea if they finished 2nd, but you get the point...).

    Suarez has been the best int'l footballer in the world for the last 5 years yet it wasn't until the last few months that people started rating him above Forlan. Now that's underrated!
     
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  10. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Agree, Suarez was rather UNDER RATED (but blame on his attitude and acts: diving, complaining, and .. BITING LOL)
    If he behaves more professional, he was surely among TOP5 best player at this moment
     
  11. XxXsoccer_fanXxX

    Aug 22, 2013
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    ^ Truth.
     
  12. enigma1986

    enigma1986 New Member

    Feb 2, 2014
  13. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Country:
    Argentina
    Suarez underrated? What the hell am I reading here?

    He just rested 10 games, he wasn't injured, he rested 10 games. And then came back in different level of fitness than anyone else. So of course he has edge in league games, he can put every effort into them as he doesn't even play in Europe.

    From now on his form will fall more he plays, because the fitness and freshness edge will disappear. That is if he doesn't try to eat another player and take another vacation. :laugh:
     
  14. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Yes... look at the following comparison

    [​IMG]

    Since you're very fond of STATS, (for Messi) , you would see the one (Bale) with lower STATS and got the HIGHEST rating with HIGHEST transfer fee record 96mils. Suarez had betetr stats and no one even mentioned him in TOP5 bests - even top10!

    Look at another link with similar WONDER:

    If Luis Suarez is worth half a Gareth Bale, do the facts match those price tags?

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footb...enham-transfer-news-can-2124873#ixzz2sHzCsd30
    Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook

    Bale vs Suarez, pure numbers, no opinions
    Premier League 2012-13

    Gareth Bale, Luis Suárez

    Appearances 33 33

    Starts 33 33

    Minutes On Pitch 2,924 2,955

    GOAL ATTEMPTS

    Goals 21 23

    Mins per goal 139 128

    Headed goals 1 3

    Right footed goals 4 15

    Left footed goals 16 5

    Goals inside box 12 18

    Goals outside box 9 5

    Penalty goals 0 0

    Direct free kick goals 2 2

    Shots 133 143

    Total shots (including blocked) 165 187

    Shots On Target 73 72

    Shots Off Target 60 71

    Shooting Accuracy 54.9% 50.3%

    Chance Conversion 15.8% 16.1%

    Blocked shots 32 44

    % of Team Goals 31.8% 32.4%

    PASSING

    Touches 2096 2059

    Touches per game 63.5 62.4

    Goal Assists 4 5

    Key Passes 71 86

    Total Passes 1,131 1,203

    Pass Completion % 79% 77%

    Pass Completion in final third % 72% 72%

    DUELS

    Duels 445 552

    Duels won % 44% 38%

    CROSSING

    Total Crosses 272 58

    Cross Completion % 23% 28%

    DRIBBLING

    Dribbles & Runs 154 291

    Dribble Completion % 38% 33%

    DEFENDING

    Tackles Made 33 42

    Tackles Won % 73% 81%

    Blocks 3 3

    Clearances 60 3

    Interceptions 42 18

    DISCIPLINE

    Fouls 24 48

    Fouls won 47 61

    Offside 11 39

    Yellow Cards 6 10

    Red Cards 0 0



    http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footb...enham-transfer-news-can-2124873#ixzz2sHzOc6bn
    Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook
     
  15. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Country:
    Argentina
    What part of the difference of injured and resting in my post you didn't understand?
     
  16. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Really the first time I see Suarez his form being related to (superior) freshness, fitness (recovery, wearing, explosiveness) levels - to taking rest, entering the league later and playing fewer games. Not sure, but an interesting thought.
     
  17. celito

    celito Member+

    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Country:
    Brazil
    Man you crack me up. He was fresher than everyone because he was 10 games into the season :ROFLMAO:

    I am not sure if you're trolling or serious. I hope it's not the latter...
     
  18. Edhardy

    Edhardy Member+

    Sep 4, 2013
    Nairobi, Kenya
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Zidane is around 11-25 greatest players of all time surely. Putting him in the top 10 is overrating and excluding him from the top 25 is underrating. What IMO brings him out of the top 10 is his somewhat underwhelming club career. At Juve he was rarely the main man and that was exposed when Del Piero got injured, at Madrid too, once Ronaldo's form dropped and Raul had entered his Ronaldo-induced "sabbatical" ... Zidane wasn't the guy to turn to in the way he was for France. Playing 10 years at both Juventus and Madrid, how many genuinely world class seasons did Zidane have?

    *****

    Suarez is rated about right, best international player of the last 5 years? Where do people get these claims from? Uruguay struggled to qualify for World Cup 2010 and its Forlan who took the mantle, which he carried through 2010. Abreu had greater impact than Suarez in 2009. In 2011 Suarez was great at the Copa but since then there have been greater perfomers for NT. In the period 09-14, Iniesta has had the biggest impact.
    At 26, Suarez is yet to play in and therefore prove himself in the CL. A stick that has been used to beat other players before him. Another thing, how often does he score against the big four (Arsenal, Man City, Man United, Chelsea) ...5 career goals against these teams?
    The guy is rated just about right in my opinion and by the end of the season he'll have made the jump to top 4-5.
     
  19. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Country:
    Argentina
    So 22 goals in 16 games before, 1 goal in 6 after the fitness/freshness edge has somewhat disappeared for Suarez.

    Why are you even in this forum?
     
  20. leadleader

    leadleader Member+

    Aug 19, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Fully agree with you there. Both Juventus and Real Madrid did better in the five years before Zidane, then they did in their five years with Zidane. At the end of the day, I think Zidane could be named one of the top 10 "entertainers" of all time, because he indeed was that great as an entertainer, but as a player he tends to be rated far too highly.
     
  21. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Offensively?
     
  22. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    For that bold, I also agree -

    For your 2nd bold, in FACT, Zidane felt not so "comfortable" with such or similar comment from fans: (followed close with a link from Sid Lowe)
    http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/laliga/id/1501?cc=5901
    ...

    Zinedine Zidane was one of the most effortless footballers there has been -- just don't let him catch you saying that. Few have been so elegant: a ballerina in boots, there was a grace about his game. His football always appeared flowing, not forced; natural, not worked upon; spontaneous and smooth. Many people likened him to a dancer. Zidane, though, is not one of them. Nor is it an analogy that he particularly shares. A dancer? No. A competitor.

    "If people say I played in a way that's elegant, great, I like that. It's nice that they say that," he admitted. "But it is uncomfortable for me."

    "First of all, I am a footballer and
    I hope people enjoyed me as a footballer on the pitch: as a competitor. I'm not there to show things, to perform. I'm there to win. I was a player that always wanted to win. And I want people to see me like that: like someone who wanted to win and was focused on that."
     
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  23. leadleader

    leadleader Member+

    Aug 19, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I think you are correct this time. I am talking about Zidane as an "entertainer" but from a youtube perspective, which is not an objective nor a realistic perspective by which to rate or describe a football player. When one watches one match of Zidane (as opposed to a youtube compilation made up of many matches), Zidane's comments do make sense, because Zidane did, in many games, produced grey performances in which he kept his play very elemental and boring, which does show that Zidane indeed preferred to win even via the pragmatic route, over pleasing the crowd with showy displays. So considering that, I have to take a step back and say that I was wrong before: Zidane was a great entertainer when you watch him on youtube, but when you watch one game of him he could be rather pragmatic regardless of how elegantly he produced said pragmatic play.
     
  24. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    I do understand your point ,,, and so did Zidane (LOL) tat's why he said he was UNCOMFORTABLE with that term "elegant" or "entertaining" ... but rather he likes people see him as a "competitor" or "decider" (like WC98 and UCL02 final ...)
     
  25. Jaweirdo

    Jaweirdo Member+

    Aug 19, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Ronaldinho is annoyingly overrated by people on youtube who are probably mostly 12 anyways. My vote goes to Ronaldinho
     

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