Messi, who is younger, is already going down as an alltimer, CRonaldo is nowhere near that list at the moment.
Cristiano Ronaldo is better than Messi. Ronaldo is a goalscorer, freekick expert, fast dribbler, all around complete player. He should win the World Player of the Year briefly, not this year but he deserved to be in the top 3 in my opinion. He is is form and will one day be considered one of the best players in the world. Viva O Cristiano Ronaldo and Portugal!!
The list is such a disgrace, the lacking inclusion of Paolo Maldini is just horrible. Therefore I refuse to vote
Its interesting but Messi was vopted World player of the year again by mostly the European press but in Argentina the Sports person of the year is Luciana Aymar
One name is simplicistic and really doesn't make justice to the history of the game: I started watching in 1976 and can talk about what I witnessed: Before 1976 Legends: Garrincha Di Stefano Pele Eusebio Beckenbauer Cruyff The ones I saw: Legends: Zico Platini Maradona Great Players: Van Basten Matheus Gullit Baresi Maldini Batistuta Baggio Ronaldo (BRA) Zidane No one in the last 6-7 years belong with the ones above, sorry. Messi has a shot since he is still young.
Beg to disagree: There are 2 occasions where Messi played against world class defenses: 1) Inter: Messi didn't go anywhere. 2) WC: Messi didn't go anywhere. Goals against Valladoid in Copa del Rey for me don't qualify to make the greatest list. The guy has still got years ahead to prove me wrong. Ronaldinho, great talent, how many great performances in a 10 year span in WC, American Cup, Champions League in crucial games? Like to see the answer. Regards.
Nostalgia at its best. You're claiming a player who scored nearly 50 goals in a season isn't at least equal to Batistuta? I'd take Messi and C. Ronaldo over Batigol any day of the week. And why is the Brazilian Ronaldo not on your legends list? You don't find it funny how all the players you claim were legends played before the 90s? Let go of the faulty memories you have of those players. They had their faults just like everyone else.
They had their faults. The difference is that all the greats have been making a difference on the field in the small games AND in the big games. Still waiting to see C.Ronaldo starting doing it. Still waiting for more and more confirmations from Messi. "Stars" today are made on the media-papers BEFORE even starting to make the difference in even one big match, just watch at the hyperhyped english players of the last few years that are "fantastic" only when Man U-Chelsea plays against Bolton or Sheffield , or don't want to sound partizan, I could find plenty of Italians, Spanish too, list would be long. "Stars" can be TV manifactured, Champions are the ones on the field.
I would say there were more than 2 occasions where Messi faced world class defenders. What about all his matches against Real Madrid? How was he not influential in those matches? And his match against Brazil, his matches against Arsenal, Man utd, etc. Let's not forget what he was doing to some of the best defenders of this generation: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC9C-b2PTFM"]YouTube - Messi vs Roberto Carlos[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FckvDOc3oZc&feature=related"]YouTube - lionel messi vs (cannavaro & roberto carlos)[/ame] As for Ronaldinho, he was spectacular for Barca in many big matches, including Chelsea, Real Madrid (where rival fans gave him an ovation for his performances). For Brazil, what he did to England in wc 02 was stuff of legends. And many other examples. I suggest going back and rewatching some of those matches.
I am glad to take your advice. Now take mine, go and watch and document yourself about the "others" on my list. Regards. "OldfartwhatdoIknow"
Likewise ... and good list to start with. However, I beckon you did not rate Romario and then Rivaldo (absent in the list)? If you'd consider Messi then Ronaldinho would certainly deserved in that list as well, no?
Good catches James .. Romario:definitely in with the Great Players. One of the 2-3 greatest scorers of the last 20 years. Would have loved to see him in Serie A, but I am sure he would have done fine even there. Rivaldo: as much as I loved his game (big reason why Ronaldo scored all his goals in WC2002) I am not sure he has been great long enough the make that list. My opinion maybe not, debatable anyway. Ronaldinho: this is the problem, if you put him in, then there is a lot of other people that should make it, (Stoichkov, Hagi, Del Piero, Totti, Bergkamp or going back Falcao, Socrates, Rummenigge and I am sure others I am forgetting) which are still great players, but one level below for peak or longevity/achievements reasons.
Zidane didn't have a good WC in 1998, so did shows the capacity of the French team to get to the final virtually without any help from Zidane. However, the team also suffered hugely when he was injured in 2002. So I don't know whether the team depended on him or not.
I agree with you that players playing in the EPL specially those that play for Man Utd and Chelsea get hyped up very quickly (and more than in other places). Look at Chicharito, he's a great player without a doubt however he is still not up there with the best. Now that he plays at Man Utd he is one of the best but when he played in Chivas @ Mexico he did the same thing yet he was a nobody. There is a lot of Englishcentricism in football.
There was a post by an intense EPL-centric guy saying "I keep hearing about how Spain are going to win the world cup. How are they going to win? Who have they got? Torres, that's it!"
Actually find majority of artes33's sentiments to be pretty passable. The list though does have one major flaw, rendering it incomplete. That being the glaring omission of genuine all-time great Puskas. With Di Stefano, the '50s greatest. On Messi. Undoubtedly a modern great with the potential and currently on course to be an all-time great/ legend. I don't think anybody is/ should be saying that he's already joined the pantheon of genuine legends like Pele, Garrincha, Di Stefano, Didi, Cruyjff, Puskas, Maradona etc. already. This will be judged at the end of his career. Greatness defined by consistency, longevity. The Messi citations provided as a somehow defining account of Messi's career as an effective attacking threat, using proper examination, are infantile & ignorant to any observers who actually witnessed them. The little Argentine didn't waltz his way through Jose's armour-plated parked bus. The ultimate definition, at that time, of a water-tight defence assigned to bunker in their own half. A victory of anti-footbal, no risk, no thrill, no show football, made possible, in large part, by a massive slice of luck. Anti-football's most famous, current posterboy knew his masterplan was doomed with anything less than a two goal cushion, which they "achieved" fortuitously before closing up shop in Spain. Even then, they practically, crawling over the finishing line. Nobody that evening at the Nou Camp was breaching such a fanatically drilled rearguard, nobody, not anyone in the current game. It was Barca after all. A weakness on Messi's part, I think not. The other assertion is another one of those knee-jerk amateur myths. The idea that Messi flopped at the WC. He was one of the most entertaining players in the tourney AND, importantly, had a hand in the majority of his national side's goals. In case some need informed, he's a creative, goalscoring forward, not a one-dimensional #9. Unless assists at major tournaments count for nothing and we only judge Messi on goals scored then he must plead guilty to not lashing in hat-tricks in every game enroute to lifting the cup, breaking WC records and cementing himself as the 2nd coming of El Diego. Maybe not living up to ludicrous media expectations, nothing to do with the boy, isn't going anywhere. Speaking of which, can you remember who was in charge? Unreal, I know.
I am not even an Inter fan, but to claim to be the better team (Barca) after you score 2 goals in 180 minutes and being scored 3 times (Inter) is a little immature. In case you missed it, defense is 50% of the Game, like it or not. Many people like to overlook that, only to be killed by "fortunate" teams .. Regards.
I take it that Messi's performance against Arsenal at Camp Nou and the two goals given to Villa in a golden platter vs. Real Madrid on the 5-0, and the header nail-in-the-coffin vs. ManU in Rome are just not important because neither of those oponents accounted to anything, right? So, he hasn't proven anything yet, right? -- Man. Is anybody paying attention to the way Messi is currently playing, compared to last year? At how, even when compared to any of the best at this moment (that I get to watch, at least) his ball control is nearly perfect, either when receiving a pass or with his own passes that always carry his signature of perfect direction, timing and disguise (ask Villa, Pedro, even De Maria yesterday...), immaterial of how uncomfortable he may be situated, but he does it with such subtlety, such finesse of movement and even so "natural" (i.e. how "insecure" did he appear on that penalty kick vs. Portugal?). Even the best of his teammates admit that Messi's, simply, on another level. Of Villa's 14 goals and Pedro's 12 in the current La Liga, quite a few came from Messi's assists. Just look at the assists leaders in La Liga: Messi 14 (in La Liga, but total is 18), Xavi, the "playmaker"? 5, Iniesta? 3, Ozil? 7, Ronaldo? 6, De Maria 5, with the closest Dany Alves' recent jump to 10. And, besides this, he happens to be sharing the scoring table with CR at 24 (in La Liga), although 5 of Mr. CR' were via PK's after "selecting" himself. -- This guy is what, 23? and in the middle of showing growth by leaps and bounds over and above of what he's already proven and is famous for. Where is he going with this? I truly do not remember many players, except for Maradona, or Pele, that made you as eager to see him get the ball because you know what's coming next, almost every time, especially around or within the 18 yards. How many players, even the most glorious ones in history, generated such sense of anticipation to the viewer throughout the game? Is being considered amongst the greatest an issue of "influence" on the team's success? In that case, two things: 1. Is FC Barcelona considered the best example in football club success today? 2. How much would this remain the same if Messi was taken away from Barca by some very, very rich and even more generous club before this weekend? Current Barca, by many considered in contention for the best team of all times being de-railed if Messi was taken away, yet, Messi still needs to prove "a lot" before he earns a place in history? Are we all watching the same movie?