Who Is The Greatest Dribbler Ever

I have no problems with the gist of your post but I only think that accusations about bias is a deviation from this.
"You have still remained fairly civil, in how you've presented your views."
http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/who-is-the-greatest-dribbler-ever.1429954/page-225#post-32133375
That is just from the previous page, right?

And this for example (I don't remember every insult but this was one I remembered and that I use as example, from 5 pages ago):
"Yes, you can say just about anything on the internet, just be sure not to be as hypocritical, borderline imbecile, as you so effortlessly are" - against someone who has a South American player as his idol
http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/who-is-the-greatest-dribbler-ever.1429954/page-220#post-32067510

For me, debating this and what greatstriker11 has said in the recent past ('morons') sidetracks the core of the matter (before page 225 I didn't call leadleader out on perceived biases either, I preferred to focus on his points/claims instead). As I said, I also think greatstriker11 has to focus on this thread or what took place since the ban expired if he likes to drop a few nice words. At some point clawing back to 'anti-European' ("will selfdestruct", "white supremacists") or other anti posts, re-using it again as justification/pretext have to stop. And there were no complaints about it on the previous page? ("civil"). Peace.

 

Yeah, I see that leadleader did say you were being civil for sure. And yeah what you quote is an example of what Moishe and comme want cutting out I think (but also leadleader should get a clean slate from after his own ban expired of course).

Basically I think nobody should insult (even potentially, if it shoud be obvious that there is such potential) anybody else. Which is what Moishe and comme are asking I think.

I think you already did say you don't hate Argentina to be fair, and that one post was over-emotional in reaction to something you perceived as anti-Dutch. Whether one rates Riquelme or Van Hanegem (hypothetical example) or Cruyff or Maradona as a better player is of course going to get debated and often a poster will favour, or at least put the case for, his own countryman or favourite. I suppose my idea was the sort of 'both sides in the argument make a good gesture' type of thing, irrespective of the reasons behind arguments on this thread or others....just to clarify that nobody wishes anyone else unhappiness or wishes to mock anyone's culture. I remember you've said you enjoy watching Ardiles for example, and Netzer too, so I know you don't hold anyone's nationality against them. Definitely peace yeah

 

So according to you a personal dig is the same as a general insult against an entire nation/continent? Actually it doesn't surprise me that you would equate them, as I think you are a bit of a hypocrite yourself.

 

Damn - this is a bit depressing now mate. I was going to compliment you for what you said to Giles too as I thought that was really great moral support in the best manner.

I think the personal insult if it did make anyone anxious/unhappy etc etc is worse, but not everyones personal view is the same I appreciate. I never have insulted any nation though I hope you appreciate?

 

I really should have kept out if it though, but I sincerely hope you see I'm not a hypocrite (leadleader seemed to agree I wasn't passive impolite or whatever the term was and I understand I could/should have responded better to his post originally...but in essence I think that was a misunderstanding and I hope this one above is also the same).

I did ask Puck to make the clarifying comment too (and that's quite a big thing since in several posts from the day he joined he's always been supportive of me).

 

I do understand that any real hatred between nations is on a wide scale more dangerous of course (hence I'm absolutely anti-war, and don't agree with anti-Argentina feeling from during the Malvinas/Falklands conflict - both governements were in the wrong I'm sure in different ways).

I think I'd rather to stuck to friendly banter and stuff about handling balls etc! While acknowledging the second goal was a bit of genius!

 

Your tacit support of those who do it, in particular to certain nations, is to me not too far from being the same. And no, an insult to a entire nation/continent is far worse than a personal insult, I would think this would be obvious.

 

Yes, personally I definitely and fully agree with that and I mean that we shouldn't hark and claw back to those times (e.g. focus primarily on this thread and secondarily what took place after the ban). I also think it is a cheap tactic to bend the dicussion to that direction ("rally around the flag") because the 'insults' didn't really depend on allegiance and it was said (at least applicable to the end of page 225) that posters "remained fairly civil, in how you've presented your views". Taking back or ignoring such comments would require clarification.

 

I don't know what to say now mate, honestly. I hope it doesn't put you off continuing to participate in that Club World Cup thread anyway. I've never supported any post that was insulting to a nation I'm sure though (unless I'm going mad - so possibly lol!).

 

Let's just put this to rest, it's what the mods have asked for anyhow. I'll continue to participate in the Club World Cup thread, hopefully my votes can influence the eventual winner.

 

Yeah, now I think about it I remember that you complimented me with this post below, but that you didn't press the rep button because it might offend people and can be interpreted as disagreeing with others (hopefully you're not mad that I say this but you sort of felt the explosiveness despite that you made a compliment, also about the international perception of the Laudrup/Cruyff team-mates and then suddenly make the team great after the tournament)
http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/who-is-the-greatest-dribbler-ever.1429954/page-218#post-32032105

To make it a bit more informative though, divert it away from individual posters, and place it in a wider perspective; that rallying around the flag also kind of occurred here when Maradona compared Van Gaal with the devil ("Van Gaal is not a nice guy, Van Gaal is closer to the devil than anything."). Just because his treatment of Falcao. Please read:
http://www.worldsoccer.com/news/meet-louis-van-gaal-colombias-mr-evil-359650

Some of the people who are otherwise critical of Van Gaal his methods and presentation took sides with him, although still maintaining earlier positions. Picking something and then rally around the flag also sort of occurs here (to an extent).

Finally, maybe it is a consolation that also in Netherlands there are some (hidden) passionate Maradona supporters, that is sort of more of a dividing line as Pelé.

[This is not the most serious sports programme but still - A possible new job of Maradona passes by, someone reveals that he is an admirer of him and sees him as the greatest ever, and a mildly heated exchange follows (the 'opponent' says that Cruijff was better, but he has in reality said a few times that he thinks George Best was the most naturally born gifted forward ever and tends to place him overall on equal footing with Pelé and Cruijff)]

 

Pipiolo - yeah that sounds best - no hard feelings from my side if none from yours (I admit it was a bit silly to compare the types of abuse and what is 'worse' without context or detailed explanation - I don't think anyone should have taken any offence to a bad degree on this forum really but I was just trying to say "hey, we should all avoid that - people can be susceptible to taking things the wrong way" - of course if people don't take anything to heart in a bad way then I can understand that they could be more aggrieved with a perceived slight on their nation).

Puck - yeah, I think I do recall saying that I thought you'd done a thorough job explaining some things about Cruyff's 1974 tournament and putting them in context but indeed that I didn't want to make it seem like an anti-Maradona rep - as it turned out leadleader to be fair to him did rep that post himself so saw it's merits too. If it wasn't that post then yeah I did say similar about some post you made (that the info was good but I didn't want to be seen to be backing a side or something, so I'd commend it by PM).

 

Similarly (if I can attempt to be funny - probably without success though lol!) - thanks Moishe and I'll commend your post without repping it because I don't want to make it seem like I'm repping a post saying I did well (I was certainly thinking the opposite for a while and still think I should have been a bit more careful tbh if I was going to post).

 

Which was repped?

OK, thanks. I understand.

 

To be honest though, Moishe's post is a lot better and I think him and comme can manage things between them without handing out any more infractions hopefully.

If his post looks insightful Pipiolo, that was what I was aiming for (although my first post was an objection to someone's posting style and then I stupidly commented that such comments were potentially worse than insulting a nation in effect I suppose).

Good job Moishe (and also comme - I guess you two had a quick chat about how to resolve things and I think you did well - maybe without crediting me it could have been better because I think my posts did have faults but anyway thanks for that too).

 

@greatstriker11 was only joking with his goofy comment mate.. But i would still like to see him get a one month ban ..

 

@Giles , you're a chameleon...yet another look

 

Sorry to say but I want to clarify that this moment you point at was not just only because of perceived anti-Dutch remarks (over time I started to understand/think that it is generally more like a "anti small countries bias", if that is the case, even though Netherlands is #3 in the all-time Elo rating but it remains one of the small countries/markets with an isolated language ofc - example being how many people observe South Korea their 2002 campaign and think they 'cheated'/'manipulated' more frequently and to a greater extent as any other 'big' nation in history; when Netherlands had their 'golden era' the rest of Europe also successfully agreed to bring down the number of entry tickets for Europe, really).

It's true I was overly emotional with that one infamous post (where I called a country a sh*thole). It was though more because that 'Riquelme is overrated' debate was already very heated and Europe as a whole became targeted, and suddenly/unexpectedly my country became designated as overrated too and certainly very much belittled. At a certain moment I became way too annoyed and told them in grossly impolite terms how I observe it, and which country will face a few bankruptcies. It is true that the very origins of certain countries are intrinsically linked to religious and anti-cultural/anti-centralist motives (which doesn't always shine through many centuries later).

Bashing Europe (so you know what I'm talking about):
http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/zidane-or-riquelme.572147/page-29#post-28516490
http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads...errated-south-american.1992889/#post-28519911
[those two examples of exchanges do not involve myself btw]

But as you know, I thought bringing back this (whether it is me or others who made 'eurocentrist'/'americacentrist' remarks) wasn't conducive, as expressed here.
http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/who-is-the-greatest-dribbler-ever.1429954/page-227#post-32159408

I know you tend to agree (or fully) agree that clawing back to those episodes wasn't fruitful anyway (or a relevant link to the events?) but I hope you don't mind that I wanted to put this straight. Thanks.

 

Haha, it's hard to tell mate really (the intention, and the way it's taken by the other person - in this case I can tell now you did take it as a joke) so that's why I'm thinking people should be careful what they post (it matters what the intention is, but if something gets taken the wrong way then it is already too late).

 

People might now be more inclined to think your avatar is Luis Figo than to think mine actually is (and it actually is) Andriy Shevchenko now anyway!

 

I think it's good that you did put it straight (and have said it was an emotional over-reaction, but after an argument that had been brewing and containing lots that annoyed you) and yeah I didn't mean to under-play the grievances by saying 'perceived anti-Dutch bias' - I didn't really remember how everything panned out.

It's ofc easy to say when you've always been kind to me personally, but I do think you're a good bloke Puck and I don't think you really wanted to incite anything unpleasant. So just take my suggestion of confirming that the comment in question was made in the heat of the moment as a way of trying to calm things down a bit.

Yeah, lets not dwell on past arguments anyway.

Probably I am or have become under-patriotic lol! Or it's just because us English are a nation of drunken long-ball playing lay-about car thieves! (That's obviously a joke - but I didn't say Scotland instead in case Fraser didn't realise!).

 

I think maybe this could be relevant at this point:

 

LOL....

He's the man of a million faces

Now he looks like he just got his shit straight up

Are you stoned mate??

@giles varley

 

Me, Giles and Pipiolo always used to take the mick out of each other. It's our way of having fun.

If i only showed you some of our PM's. You would laugh your ass off

I have never mentioned Puck in my post as being racist. My comment was as general as possible to avoid any direct personal confrontation with any one. The so called racist posters won this forum, if they feel they themselves addressed by my post then its on their conscience not mine.

And on James, well the old man sure must be enjoying of his long vacation. Be advised to enjoy the relative peace on this thread before he's back.