Now Pacific FC Awe, that’s cute. 🔱 🌊 🍁 #PacificFC #CanPL pic.twitter.com/nOzJAmFMkz— Pacific FC (@Pacificfccpl) August 22, 2019
Don't sweat it - it's just the CPL doing marketing. The Canadian MLS teams all play Canadians to the extent that they are MLS ready. The CPL, which has a stated focus of developing Canadians and league rules requiring Canadian players, plays more Canadians. That's not a surprise. Did you know that the CFL also plays more Canadians than the NFL? It's true! I do look forward to the continuing development of Canadian talent. If you look at our national team from the last Gold Cup, most of the players (especially the ones under 30) are or were in the MLS system. That's with only three teams. Having that plus the CPL is really going to accelerate things.
A Canadian team team beat Honduras Champions with 10 Canadians. "MLS Ready" is a bit simplistic". I'm not surprised that Vancouver plays more Canadians, that's has more to do with Dos Santos being there as playing Canadians was always a big thing for him What has been the results? No World Cup, No hex and so on. The best starting XI aren't from the MLS system
This is probably not the best forum for this discussion so I'll be brief. The past results have shown that what we were doing wasn't enough. That said, a big part of what we do have is because of the influence of MLS. MLS came to Canada in 2007. We didn't get up to three teams until 2012. It took some time for these teams to start producing new Canadian players and even longer for the quality of those players to get to the point where some of them can make the national team. It's only recently that the national team level input from MLS had been added to the small supply that somehow always found their way to Europe. It's not a coincidence that it's only recently that our national team has started it's big upswing. We finally have a large enough player pool to make this start to work. The CPL is only going to add to and accelerate this process. Realistically, however, it's going to be a number of years before the CPL additions make a meaningful impact on the national team. Whether we make the World Cup in 2022 will depend (in part) on how well the MLS players and graduates perform, not those from the CPL. 2026 will hopefully be a different story in terms of CPL contributions.
While I don't disagree with some of your statements, you're exaggerating the amount of credit given to our Canadian MLS teams for the program turning around. Most would agree that Hoilett, Cavallini, Arfield, David, Davies joining the program are at the core of the turnaround. In regards of talent production, they did produce some players capable of making an impact at the senior level... but it was done so wrong on so many level and at the expanse of too many other talents. My favorite example...Liam Millar, one of Liverpool best prospect was denied by TFC because "he was too short to succeed" . This reflects MDS comments about "mistakes" being done in evaluating players after getting eliminated by ex-Vancouver academy "rejects". The bias of those academies system against guys who weren't originally part of there's is also well documented and one of the core reasons why we haven't reached our true potential. Larin was drafted 1st overall because he went in the NCAA, TFC snubbing of Sigma, L1O or anything in their backyard not part of their system is legendary. I know as much for Montreal. Maybe Vancouver? Sure, you can "colonize" Canada with Whitecaps, TFC academies but what's the point if you're utterly ignoring the talent that's out there or isn't part of your system initially? The treatment of Mark-Anthony Kaye is well documented and he's still bitter about it but hey... "Not MLS level" or was it about being from York University and TFC level of interest in him was tied to that stigma as an "outsider"? Look, I'm not saying MLS is evil. Plenty of examples of MLS academies doing incredible things, but there is a massive problem with the way our Canadian teams have conducted business since joining MLS and it goes all the way to Soccer Canada who puts youth roster heavily MLS loaded while the other academies are ignored. Pre-2007 Youth teams had better results than MLS era youth teams. Sometimes, you have to look at results and start asking questions instead of drinking the cool-aid those team's PR are spinning. Lots of fans and Voyageurs are waiting impatiently for the U23 roster for Tokyo Olympics qualifiers. If that roster is MLS heavy, there's a problem. Should be a good balanced of CPL/MLS and oversea guys.
^ Our NT turn around is built on a number of factors that all reinforce each other. MLS helped expand the player pool which helped the team start to improve which made it attractive for guys like Hoilett to actually sign up which further drives the NT level... MLS is not the factor but it has been part of the development of literally half our current NT which is pretty good. As for missing players - yes, for sure. And all teams have issues about "outsiders" and politics at the development level. And issues of timing where a promising youngster is stuck behind a really good starter. These aren't limited to the Canadian MLS teams or even to soccer. (Talk to someone who knows something about how Canada's world junior hockey team is selected one day if you want an interesting conversation.) There's only so much that three Canadian MLS teams are going to be cover in a country of 35 million people. Would Belgium catch all its soccer talent with one top level pro team? Or 1.5 teams for the Netherlands? Five for the entire UK? Even if it did nothing else, the biggest thing the CPL will accomplish is spreading the talent-search net wider.
Hoilett joined in 2015. This was the roster against Mexico in round 4 of the WCQ for Russia. Looking below, claiming that Hoilett joined because of Doneil Henry, Karl Ouimette and Russell Teibert is a massive exaggeration. It's really in this cycle that we are starting to feel the effect of the CAN MLS academy production, to be fair, Davies, Arfield, Cavallini and David are the starting point and only one of them is from MLS. I was just highlighting that our system has been flawed for years giving the unfair and inaccurate perception that what MLS academies were producing was the best Canada had to offer (removing those going to Europe at a young age) They aren't being criticized because they aren't doing "enough", the criticism is the "how" from youth all the way to 1st team. TFC being heavily American is a joke in 2019 when we have a better idea of the talent out there. If Forge can start 10 Canadians and beat a century old club with a strong track record in CONCACAF, what's their excuse for not staring more Canadians in MLS? Canadians not being "MLS level or ready"? Fans aren't buying this. I just want them to give more opportunities to the Canadians they have in their system. Give them opportunities and they will perform. That`s my wish.
I would like to see this, too. I also have to ask: If you were the coach of TFC, which Canadian would you be starting on Saturday in place of which non-Canadian? (I'm assuming that Osorio, Shaffelburg, and Laryea will already be starting.) Anyway, I should probably stop with this in the Vancouver forum.
The President, GM and coach are American. They are unlikely to care about the whole Canadian picture which they already said to their season ticket holders Dos Santos always caring about Canadians playing and being given opportunities where the French Remi Garde could care less are massive factors that you can't simply dismiss. Nathan Ingham gives full credit to MDS for that. Maybe we need more Canadian coaches and FO staff on our teams. I see no evidence that Wheeldon or Smyrniotis can't coach a Canadian MLS team. That matters because it's unlikely that these guys wouldn't provide more opportunities to Canadians to play. How can they improve at that level if you keep them on such a short leash while US and Foreigners barely have one?
Some of this stuff is coming to fruition, I see. I'm still waiting on Nash but I sense that only the TSN pre-game show will feature a substantial '79 remembrance. I'm surprised they were able to move Felipe but he obviously had more cachet than 3/4 mill man Erice. The Honduran and Ricketts get to serve as "just another guy" types. There is no way they'll be signing CPL Canadians who have done well this year. It would kill their Academy recruitment in those cities. Why sign up with the Caps if they can get a real shot with the Winnipeg Valour FC or any other CPL club that has a Caps academy in the same city?
That further proves my point that the current system might be flawed. There was an interesting podcast with Kurt Larson on CPL academies and here are some of the point they made CPL teams see the costs of academies as being very high while seeing the return being very low Short to medium term, they prefer to work with existing academies, evaluating the players and signing them instead of establishing their own academies and compete with them Teams establishing their own academies would be more of a long term goal This way, teams would just go and get the best talents out there instead of competing with other academies. People need to realize what the landscape is out there. FC Edmonton academy is a huge reason why CPL is very cautious about academies. FC Edmonton started their academy and the other ones saw it as "competition". It got ugly real fast where there was boycotting going on and schemes which negatively impacted players who would get their opportunities denied for silly reasons. It's only recently that FC Academy made peace with them, this worries CPL teams. That's why for now you're seeing something like this: Pacific working with Vancouver Isle academies and mainland Alberta teams being on good terms with existing Alberta academies Same for Valour with Manitoba York9 and Forge working with L10 and academies Halifax working with Atlantic Canada On the other hand, you can predict how existing academies took MLS academies colonizing their territories... Very badly and in reverse, it's known that there's a bias against players who weren't from their academy. I know as much for TFC and Montreal Impact. This is what I mean by "the system is wrong". Everyone fighting for their turf ensured that we stagnated when we should work together and funnel the best to the right team/league : CPL-MLS-Overseas. That's one aspect of what's wrong in Canadian soccer development.
i must say i have been pleasantly surprised by theo bair's skill, deception and some quickness- he seems to be growing with more confidence and is making an impact in games- he needs to work on his finishing and hats off to MDS for giving opportunities to the younger canadians- if 25% of them succeed after being signed, then that will leave more salary for international-quality players- and the sub players of other nationalities wont be needed the season that the Cap owners actually have to put money out for salaries- NOT TRANSFERS- the sooner i will trust and believe that they care about the progress of the team- since year 1, all salaries, as far as i know, have come from the MLS pots
Thanks for the interesting and polite discussion guys. I mean that sincerely. It is a rare treat to get different views presented in such lucid fashion. Kudos to you all. Bair has definitely broken through. MDS does view the Canadian talent differently than TFC or Impact coaches. For so long we have been climbing a ladder with too many rungs missing. We may not be complete but it is looking more like a climbable ladder than a pair of stilts now.
That is very smart. Good to hear they are thinking about local relations. FC Ed making peace was the smart thing to do. Way overdo but better late than never.
In the early years they kicked in a bit for Jarju, Miller, Hassli, Morales as the MLS pots were not the same back then. But at this stage, any salary under a million dollars is covered by the salary cap and various allocation monies. THey pretty much have not spent a dime on salary in at least 2 seasons. So, the transfer fee money from Davies that they are mandated to spend, has seen some spending. But to get an IMPACT level player, you need one or two who will command salaries of 2 - 3 million (we dont expect them to sign a super star). If Kerfoot sticks to a squad with all salaries paid for by MLS money then even the best coach will only get the club as a marginal on again off again play off team. Nothing higher than that. I dont think anyone reasonable is asking them to spend a ton of money, but 2 impact players earning 2 - 2.5 million per year each, surrounded by a solid and well coached team of players under the cap or paid by MLS moneies, and one can put together a good team that can make a run once in a while. As for now, they do not wish to pay salary. And quite frankly, with their revenues about to take a massive hit next year, I don't see that changing. Will the team be better next year? it should be, maybe even marginally make the playoffs. But that is the long term ceiling and I don't find that acceptable. Kerfoot has created a self fulfilling prophesy. He believed this was a market thats peak was 21,000 fans, he kept down the tarps when demand was higher, didnt spend on salaries, and now is in a position where he is getting under 20k a lot of games and will take losses especially next year. THe issue is, if this sinks too low, it will be not viable for anyone to buy and keep here; and the lure of 200 million from another city will be justifiable when showing the books ( Hey ,we lost 10 million last year!!). Just a shame he ran this thing down like this. The club really was on the cusp of being a 25k average with big matches being able to draw into the upper deck. Now look at it. My heart is longing for the smell of grass and 5000 fans in an outdoor facility after all this crap we have seen happen with Caps MLS. I would be at the CPL in a heartbeat if they show up in our market. One of the major reasons I support the CFL is because "its ours and its unique". I dont need something to be the top league to enjoy it as I am a fan of the game itself. I would feel the same way about a CPL team. Its our league, doesnt have to be as good as MLS, just give me a good enjoyable experience with hard working players, canadians that have a future, and much more. Just like the swangard days. I ripped the CPL a lot for some of their absurd claims of 2.5 million dollar salary caps and so forth. But from what I have seen in year 1, I am very surprised and pleased. Modest salary levels, a lot of Canadians, and its a good start.
Yeah, I hope it comes to fruition. Lots of things have to be done to make it a reality. The climate for a team is excellent in light of the alienated Caps fans and some of us older ones that want a return to the outdoor grass small stadium days
Current CEO of Pacific FC, Rob Friend was leading an effort to get the CPL "Fraser Valley", Surrey club done. However, Surrey proved difficult in getting the stadium/land deal, so Friend merged his bid with Dean Shillington who wanted a Vancouver Island club and they founded Pacific FC. According to the league, there's groups interested in Kelowna and Lower Mainland (no locations identified but Burnaby, Langley keeps coming back with Surry being a long shot) Most Importantly, BC will be getting a Division 3 BC Soccer provides update on proposed Regional Tier 3 League: https://t.co/GwiRSV0WkK pic.twitter.com/w0E8Shvd70— BC Soccer (@1BCSoccer) June 27, 2019
What kind of operation will this regional league be? VMSL level with some small payments? Will it be a U 23 type of league? If they get a CPL team in Burnaby or Langley, I will be a season ticket holder. Even if I can't get to all the games I would want to support it. But man I hope they don't go with Peter Shaad's Port City FC. That just does not fit with the market even if we are a port area. After 9 years of Kerfoot in MLS, I want to return to the days of grass, donair trucks, and 5000 fans seeing a bunch of canadian players on the pitch. WITHOUT Kerfoot as owner
If it's anything like L10 (which I suspect it will be) you may get grass, you may get food trucks, the crowds will be more like 50 to 500 than 5000, and you will certainly get to see a lot of Canadians. The level of play will not be amazingly high but it will certainly be watchable. And tickets will be less than what you pay to see the Whitecaps.
I am not sure if you are replying to me about CPL (which will draw way more than 500) or the new regional league being talked about. If its the latter your comment makes more sense! I am a fan of the game more than the level of play. I don't have to be in MLS to enjoy what I am watching. But here in NA the 2nd and 3rd tiers of any sport see a huge drop in attendances (hence why pro/rel would be a huge challenge for MLS). I enjoyed the WFC2 games but being out at TBird was a cramped in experience and not that great, and they didn't put much infrastructure around the Langley stadium so it was just kind of showing up and leaving.
I see that Norman Jr is now a Pacific FCer en route to becoming a Inter Miami player next year. I wonder if the other Baldisimo will be joining his brother on the island next season? The next Academy grad to graduate to the senior team will probably come via the Whitecaps academies in Alberta. Just a hunch.