When will the Canadian Pr League close the gap with MLS?

Discussion in 'CONCACAF Champions Cup' started by MisterJawn_215, Feb 23, 2018.

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Will a CanPL side win CCL before MLS?

  1. Yes

    9 vote(s)
    34.6%
  2. No

    17 vote(s)
    65.4%
  1. devioustrevor

    devioustrevor Member

    Jun 17, 2007
    Napanee, Ontario
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Never. CPL will be a feeder league. CPL exists to give young players a shot at showing off for MLS and European teams.
     
  2. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What do you propose basketball and baseball fans in Toronto do if they couldn't have teams in NBA and MLB?
     
  3. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Go to New York? Or make their own league. If you'll recall, the Expos are long gone. They've got football already, and if they can make football work in Saskatchewan, they should be able to figure it out.
     
  4. TFCREDMENACE

    TFCREDMENACE Member

    Toronto FC
    Brazil
    Feb 4, 2019
    Ontario
    It will never reach the quality of mls
    Canpl is a pub league nothing more then that..if the league even survives past season 2 it will be a miracle..
     
  5. devioustrevor

    devioustrevor Member

    Jun 17, 2007
    Napanee, Ontario
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    It has a 10-year Media deal (worth $200M) with the company behind BeIN Sports, so the league will be around at least that long.
     
  6. ChuckBlazersCat

    Tottenham Hotspur, Celtic FC, FC St. Pauli, Chicago Fire
    United States
    Mar 25, 2019
    As soon as the Scottish League catches up to the BPL.

    Seriously?
     
  7. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know about the Expos. I'm assuming the Blue Jays and Raptors are doing better financially than the Expos leading up to their move. The Expos moving had nothing to do with if baseball should have a Canadian league.
     
  8. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Cool. Point being, it's not like we haven't taken away Canadian teams before. Or, for that matter, taken away American teams and moved them up to Canada (e.g Winnipeg). There's nothing that says we need a Canadian team in an American sports league.

    You asked "what of the fans?". That's the answer. Follow another team. Or make your own. What's going to happen to Raiders fans? They'll follow the Las Vegas Raiders. Or the 49ers. Or try and make an NFL team in Oakland again (won't happen, Oakland sucks both from a city management standpoint and a location-standpoint now that it's not cheap to build/live over there).
     
  9. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    CPL is unlikely to surpass MLS, all it can do is grow and narrow the gap over time. It's realistic to say that CPL will be a top 5 CONCACAF league capable of competing while developing talent, that's the goal.
     
    Californian81 repped this.
  10. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not saying the model of the top European leagues is better, but one good thing about them is that clubs don't move or threaten to move to get a new stadium. Clubs occasionally move, fold, or merge with each other, but that doesn't happen to any of the top clubs. According to Google Maps, the Oakland Raiders are 8:22 away from Las Vegas, which includes going south and north because there's no direct route on highways. To compare, it's 8:47 from the Penzance in the southwest corner of England to Berwick-upon-Tweed in the northeast corner.

    Fans of teams who move could follow another team, but it's not the same as going to games, knowing people who go to games, and possibly seeing players in public. Fans making a new team that a top level American league will accept is not realistic. NFL and MLB both have a structure of leagues and divisions that would need significant changes if the amount of teams went up or down one. If a person is born in Oakland, it's not that person's fault if there are things about Oakland that make teams leave. It's easy to minimize what you think somebody else's problems are when they're not your problems.

    I heard something from a Pittsburgh Steelers fan in Baltimore. The Indianapolis Colts were the Baltimore Colts, and their last year in Baltimore was 1983. When he was a child without an NFL team there, he became a Steelers fan because he had family in Pittsburgh. The Baltimore Ravens started in 1996, and now he roots for a division rival of the nearest team to him because he had no way of knowing that Baltimore would get a new team.
     
  11. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's possible. If in ten years the CPL is remembered as something that quickly failed, I won't be shocked. If in ten years the CPL is behind Liga MX, MLS, maybe Costa Rica's Liga FPD, and ahead of the other leagues, I won't be shocked either.
     
  12. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The questions surrounding franchises being allowed to move in a closed system vs. starting your own team in an open system, are an entirely different kettle of fish.

    It is undeniably odd to have Canadian teams in American sports leagues. It is undeniable that teams have left Canada for the US before (Vancouver Grizzlies to Minnesota Grizzlies, who used to be the Lakers) and have left US states for Canada (Atlanta Thrashers to Winnipeg Jets). So the thought of the Canadian MLS teams leaving is perfectly reasonable.
     
  13. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Los Angeles Lakers used to be the Minneapolis Lakers. The Vancouver Grizzlies became the Memphis Grizzlies. You mistakenly combined the history of two teams. Just because teams have moved countries doesn't mean the Canadian MLS clubs would want to do that.
     
  14. GunnerJacket

    GunnerJacket Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 18, 2003
    Gainesville, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Essentially. If they can sustain 10 teams for a generation, building up the physical and media infrastructure to become a fixture of the domestic sports scene, then that bodes well. Do that and they'll position themselves for growth but will at least have a viable product to feed the development of talent.
     
    Robert Borden repped this.
  15. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just because you ask "what about the fans" doesn't mean the Canadian MLS clubs can't or won't move into the CPL.

    And, I already said that:

     
  16. Californian81

    Californian81 Member

    Chivas
    Mexico
    Oct 26, 2017
    Not that hard to surpass the MLS. Central American teams with smaller budgets than my household income regularly smack MLS teams around in CCL. Totally possible to at least be 50/50.

    Good luck Canada. I support your league's success.
     
  17. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    #42 Robert Borden, Apr 29, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
    I was at the inaugural game, watched it again, saw Pacific vs Halifax last night. From what I saw, it seems that the league was not exaggerating when claiming that the quality would be high at kick-off and wanting to be above USL Championship and projected to be under MLS (Most Central American leagues are there).

    Most analysts (even known skeptics), fans, casuals and non-fans admitted that the quality was much better they anticipated. I've watched my load of USL games (Ottawa Fury and TFC II) and the level of play was similar from the get go. I saw absolutely nothing suggesting it was lower. As the game progressed, it kept going higher. I found the play to be more entertaining.

    The most skeptical sports journalists are in the French province of Quebec as they barely cover CPL and are all about Montreal Impact...However: (translate in twitter)

    That was pre-game
    (Most thought it would be somewhat like USL One)

    Half-time
    (Saw a level comparable to USL Championship) 2nd half (when Forge started to play really well)
    (Saw that they could be trouble to lower tier MLS - wouldn't look out of place)

    The point is that people had really low expectations and they were exceeded. I think the spring season will be your "tune-up" season. I felt that Forge and Halifax used the wrong starting XI. Guys have never played with one another and everything is new.

    The Fall season (July to October) will be CPL's true season and I expect CPL to achieve a higher level of play than USL Championship and for the quality to keep rising over the years.
     
  18. Californian81

    Californian81 Member

    Chivas
    Mexico
    Oct 26, 2017
    Good to hear. Can't wait to see your teams competing internationally when that time comes.
     
    Robert Borden repped this.
  19. It's called FOOTBALL

    LMX Clubs
    Mexico
    May 4, 2009
    Chitown
    This fall they'll debut in C-League

    And they'll close the gap by 2025, to answer OP
     
    Robert Borden repped this.
  20. nfitz

    nfitz Member

    Aug 20, 2007
    Toronto
    I really would be surprised - they've got a long way to go. I'd think they'd be decades out at best.

    Heck, looking at the first Voyageurs Cup results this week, they are far closer to the level of the top Ontario and Quebec soccer leagues than MLS.

    I might be pleasantly surprised - but 5-6 years seem way too short.
     
  21. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    We're talking closing the gap, not matching it. Closing the gap is inevitable and the league will only get better. Some would argue that Central American League are weaker than MLS but they can compete against them and win.

    I wouldn't put too much into the results of the 1st leg, York had lions hare of the possession and Halifax didn't start their A squad, no Perea, lida and their main keeper who would have saved those goals. They too were better.

    Cavalry, Valour and Forge could do well in CONCACAF League.
     
    It's called FOOTBALL repped this.
  22. nfitz

    nfitz Member

    Aug 20, 2007
    Toronto
    Gosh, will the gap be smaller? Probably ... but I don't think that's what people normally mean by that.

    Assuming the CPL actually survives. I don't see how that league is even going to break even for many years, given the excessive travel costs. But if it survives, the gap would have to be smaller, because otherwise, it probably won't be around come 2025!

    "Smaller" doesn't mean "not massive" though!
     
  23. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    That's what most people mean except those who think that "MLS is closing the gap with Liga MX". Nope we aren't talking "that gap closing" :)

    Has MLS clubs broke even? Montreal haven't made a dime in profit since joining and that's SUM revenues included.

    Even with the travel costs, teams can break even (operational costs), if they can draw enough attendance (around 6k a game). Mtl draws an average of 17k and are bleeding money. We just need to be fair in comparison.

    The media deal, sponsorships (Deal with Westjet for travels) and the wealth of the owners, the league is going nowhere.

    The league will improve yearly but if you're talking "CPL 2.0" (significant improvement in quality), after the 2026 World Cup. The league will be full, Division II will be starting and they will be close to renegotiate their media deal.
     
  24. nfitz

    nfitz Member

    Aug 20, 2007
    Toronto
    That's not what the original poster meant - they then used the phrase "surpass the MLS". I'm not sure why you are trying to pretend that an improvement is all that was meant in this thread.

    I hope you are right - but it's not like they are all getting free travel on Westjet!

    That's the best-case scenario. I'm not seeing a lot of balanced reporting on the future of the league - but there are a lot of cheerleaders.
     
  25. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Well, I'm talking gap closing as the poster you quoted said in response to the OP.

    We don't know. Most likely preferential fares which is a massive win for the league in terms of travel costs

    The cheerleading is based on the strength of ownership, sponsors deals, media deal, CSB and a willingness to have realistic expectations for an inaugural season giving a shot for every club to be able to break even on season 1...something some MLS teams have never achieved.

    The optimism is based on facts.
     

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