When to raise flag question....

Discussion in 'Referee' started by NHRef, Jun 25, 2007.

  1. NHRef

    NHRef Member+

    Apr 7, 2004
    Southern NH
    Ran a line for the 030 Mens semi-final yesterday morning. Had one that I believe I got right, especially considering the pre-game, but nagging doubts in my head....

    During pre-game it was stressed by the CR to wait on through balls with offside attackers to see if ball is going to keeper or out of play etc. But to make sure to raise it to avoid contact with racing defenders/keeper.

    Well it happened. I was with 2nd last defender and there was an attacker just beyond this (looked like a cross between David Ortiz (Red Sox player) and Shaqueel Oneil, dude was HUGE!!). Anyway, ball comes over the top, he breaks, clearly offside. I hesitate with the flag, shoot a look for ball path and trajector and keepers actions. Keeper breaks to come meet the ball so I hesitate a bit longer. Decide that keeper is going to have to play ball from outside the PA while on the run. I raise the flag, keeper shanks the kick out of play. CR blows whistle for offside.

    All kinds of chaos breaks out from the offside team and player about he played the ball etc etc etc. I state I waited on the flag to see what happens, CR backs call saying he shanked it under pressure from attacker so that's an advantage. We come out with IFK for the defenders.

    I really feel I got this right, though maybe should have raised the flag a step earlier, but hesitated due to specific pre-game to wait.

    When do you feel the flag SHOULD be raised here (ignore any pre-game I got, but when would you like it raised as a ref)?

    Without the pre-game I probably would have raised it a bit ealier to remove the shank from coming into effect, but not sure, it really happened fast and I do feel the right move is to wait to see if the ball will get to the keeper, but comibining a short field and the position we were on the field, it happened very quick.

    Interested in thoughts.....
     
  2. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The standard answer is that I'd want the flag when it's clear that the attacker in the offside position is the only attacker that could get to the ball AND he is making an attempt to become actively involved.

    The keeper element makes it a bit trickier. Some referees--and assessors--don't want "unnecessary" flags. My opinion is I'd rather wave off an innocuous flag (that is otherwise correct and, in my opinion, shows everyone that my AR is involved) than be stuck with a nasty collision or a late, confusing flag. So unless the ball is clearly going to the keeper and he will have ample time to play it with his hands or feet without any possibility of pressure, I'd say you use the standard from my first paragraph and don't worry about getting waved down. Once you're sure that the player in an offside position is the only attacker than can play the ball and he is trying to play the ball, go ahead and flag. If the keeper gets there first and a whistle isn't needed, it's not the end of the world.
     
  3. LoewenBoy

    LoewenBoy Member+

    Aug 25, 2004
    Giesing, Muenchen
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Sint Maarten
    Agree. For me this does not mean that you have to wait so long as above. If he takes more than a few steps toward teh ball, he clearly is going to try to play it...flag up. To wait longer, to me, makes no sense.

    Agree 100% with this. Usually what the CR is trying to avoid is the obvious plays where the attacker is offside but the ball is going to the keeper.

    Also, depending on the situation and conditions that day, flagging further upfield may be more of an advantage to the defending team. I.e., if the thought is a keeper punt is better than the IDK. On windy days it may be better having the field position at the spot of the foul too...but only if the attempt to play is made.
     
  4. campton

    campton New Member

    May 1, 2007
    Chi-city
    Whenever i center a game, i want my AR to raise the flag whenever the offiside infraction occurs. UNLESS the ball is obviously not going to be clean and to the attacker. If the keeper is coming out to get it, i simply will ntoion to the AR that i have seen his signal, and that i am choosing to allow play to continue. That pre-game he gave you is a bit tricky. I wouldnt have liked to be in your position.
     
  5. macheath

    macheath New Member

    Jul 8, 2005
    DC
    I agree with what others are saying. Probably good, when we are all ARing, to ask CR's specifically in the pregame about these kinds of scenarios, and be sure we're clear. I agree with others that you got a tough, somewhat ambigious set of instructions, so this is also a helpful example for me when I'm in the center in terms of being clear in my pregram. I tend to raise the flag once the attacker is making a play for the ball, unless it is very clear that the keeper will get to it well before the attacker gets there, or that the ball is clearly going out of play before the attacker gets there. If I'm unsure, I put the flag up, in order to avoid collisions, but also the situation that happened in your game--other team saying that the flag was late, etc.
     
  6. ref47

    ref47 Member

    Aug 13, 2004
    n. va
    i don't see the pregame instruction as a problem. i think it covers the outstanding theory on how to call those situations. if ball easily going to keeper or out to defense - no need to call offside; keep matcg moving. if any chance of the offside player getting to the ball or rushing a defender's play - raise the flag.
     
  7. Ref Flunkie

    Ref Flunkie Member

    Oct 3, 2003
    New Hudson, MI
    Yup, and it sounds like you did your job. The attacker was actively involved and there was no advantage to waiting for the keeper to get the ball if there was a chance for him to be killed. I really don't think there is THAT much advantage to the keeper punting vs. playing it off the ground, especially in men's matches AND when considering the safety of the keeper.
     

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