I don’t think this is your fault. If the defenders were getting a second ball off the field, the goalkeeper should have never kicked the ball in the first place. The defenders could have told you what they were doing as well. They could have said, “There’s a second ball on the field” at which time you could have delayed the restart.
His ARs should have been helping as well. If I see something like this, I’m popping my flag and holding it. Once the goal is scored, I’m calling my center over and saying we need to go back to the restart. If we are using headsets, I’m telling my center we have a ball on the field that shouldn’t be there and we need to wait. We can’t see everything as the center. That’s why we have assistants.
I did a college game earlier this year as AR1. Start of conference play, both teams needed this win, yada yada. Players get chippy, talking, and the ref starts cracking down. Visiting player loses the ball on a beautiful tackle, takes exception to it, and just crushes this kids thigh with his cleat. Straight red. Center goes to report this to the coach, as is required, and the home coach is in my ear for whatever reason. 2 kids starting throwing punches at mid-field and we have a baseball scuffle with the players on the field. I make a "line in the sand" about 10 yards on the field making sure no more bench players cross and only the coaches can cross it to break up the fight. We're at 3 reds total now. End of the game, visiting team loses, and a visiting player smashes a ball into the stands after the horn. Now, this part is critical. This college doesn't have a proper stadium. They use a local field with your standard aluminum bleachers about 4 yards off the pitch. Well, a nice young woman takes this strike to the face. 2 male fans run out of the bleachers into the field and grab the player that kicked the ball. All hell broke loose. Visiting team players run to help out their teammate. More fans run out of the stands, the home team players run in to stop it/join the fight. Benches clear. It was 3-7 minutes of chaos. There were no cops, no security, just an AD and some game management personal. It is by far, the worst incident in my officiating career excluding referee assault. None of the fights were mentioned on any websites of the schools. One had the hilarious understatement of "a small scuffle led to a few ejections".
We had a community college men's game in which a home team dad didn't like the referee's decisions, particularly about contact with his son. After the game, the dad comes storming over to the referees and starts to give them a piece of his mind. It's community college, so less security/supervision than your typical small high school game. The assessor gets over there and he gets into it with the dad, who is threatening all kinds of consequences for the referee crew. The cherry on the sundae is that the dad pulls out his business card, to show them that he's someone important and they'd better not mess with him. He's a state circuit court judge! Referee association mucky mucks calling the school's mucky mucks and it escalates. Eventually, the assessor is called to testify before the state's judicial fitness commission about what this guy said and did. There were some other court related complaints about the guy (judicial temperament, surprise, surprise, and his refusal to recognize a state law that he disagreed with), and, eventually, he was removed from the bench, probably more for the other complaints than anything else, but I'm sure this was the first time that soccer referee decisions caused a judicial fitness commission hearing.
One of those complaints included "hanging portraits of Adolf Hitler in his courtroom." You can see some articles at https://www.courthousenews.com/oregon-judge-under-firetells-of-soccer-tiffs/ and https://www.courthousenews.com/judicial-commission-wants-oregon-judge-ousted/.
In 15/years of doing this, I have only had KFTPM twice as a referee and 4 times as an AR. Both screw-ups were while I was an AR, once with the referee and once in the center circle. HS State Tournament game in the late fall and an old turf field. Before the game, because of the sun, we decide that if it goes to kicks, we HAVE TO USE one goal over the other, and compounding the issue there is a tear in the turf where the ball would need to be placed. I am on the goal line looking back directly at the kicker in the sunlight. All 10 kicks are taken. The last is the only one missed. Two weeks later, we find out we placed the ball at the pointy ball hash mark and not the soccer mark on the worn turf field. Second one, I’m in the center circle. Keeping track. We go to 14 kicks apiece. Some point around round 8, I ran out of room and needed to flip the page. Huge mistake. Kick 9 was taken by kicker 1. Not discovered until the end.
How do folks keep track, and who? When I'm R, I always ask my AR in the center to track, but I always track myself, too, so we have two sets of eyes. (I write down the number of the shooter--I circle for a goal, and lightly line through for a miss, keeping the number legible.)
I want all members of my team keeping track. There are too many opportunities to mess up a point of law/rule, which could lead to a protest. I bought KTFM stickers that I put on my reusable game card. I write down the number of each kicker. An x next to the number for a miss, a circle for a make.
I use this from OSI. With one rec league's regional and state tournaments where every game goes straight to KFTM if tied, I use these a lot.
Was this a USSF game where they don't have to tell you the order prior to the player taking the kicks? In NFHS, the coaches need to give you the order. At least they do in the NFHS rulebook and that's what my state follows.
First, the NFHS rule book section on tie breakers is titled "Sample Tie-Breaking Procedures." Each state has its own procedures, although that may be simply adopting what is in the book. Second, there is nothing in the NFHS sample procedure that says that the coaches have to give the referee a list of kickers in advance. It only says that the coach " will select" five different players to take the kicks. The referee is not mentioned as receiving a list from the coaches. If they were supposed to give the referee a list in advance, there would also have to be procedures around making changes during the kicks, etc., in case of injuries, the coach changes his mind, etc.
Kit, did you double check your HS book, yet? It doesn't mention the order of taking: "Each coach will select any five players, including the goalkeeper, on or off the field (except those who may have been disqualified) to take the kicks."
Reading this addendum in the HS book answers a question that came up in one of my games years ago. If a player is cautioned after the second half ends, can he participate in Kicks? (Imagine say, incidental language, YC) The answer is: Not in the first 5, but he can kick sixth (or later). My game was JV (with a running clock). Red #12 fouls recklessly with about 5 seconds left. He gets shown the YC as time expires. Game tied. JV tournament, needs a winner, going to Kicks. Can he participate? He is one of Red's best players. At the time, I recall we did not let him kick. Since they decided with the first 5 kickers, we were OK. Legally, we should let him kick in the second group of 5. Imagine Varsity, same scenario: hard foul with 5 seconds left. Stop clock; show card: #12 subs out. Five seconds of play, then time ends. Can he participate in Kicks? HS book indicates: Yes, even in the first 5. (Hope I haven't jinxed someone for raising this obscure bit. Or if you get it, I hope you rule correctly.)
Interesting. Michigan had high school/NFHS game a couple of years ago where AR1 insisted that a team had kicked out of order, thus had missed a kick, thus had lost the game. Protests and lawsuits were threatened, and the state stepped in and ordered that the game be restarted from the nth kick. A new ref crew was brought in (and paid, of course) to administer something like 4 kicks before the game was decided. I actually had a semi final the following season that went to KFTPM that involved the same coach as the game mentioned above. When the other team insisted something wrong about KFTPM (we were still tied after 5, he insisted that this meant that we had to go to 10 kicks), I didn't argue, I simply called the state director for soccer and handed the phone over to the (wrong) coach. Anyway, the state insists that the only players on the field are the 2 keepers and the additional 8-10 players involved. All other players and coaches must be in their respective technical areas. That kind of forces the coach to "provide the list of five kickers" to the referee crew, at least implicitly. As you say, each state gets to do it however they want. Not to drift the thread (ok, I am drifting the thread), @Law5 , I know you're not on the rules committee any more, but any insight into which, if any, of the new IFAB laws will make it into the NFHS rule book for next year?
I never get a list from the coach. The only thing I will do is ask the goalkeepers if they are in the first 5 kickers. Otherwise, I just write them down as they come up. Never had a problem doing it this way.
You ask the goalkeeper because then you will know why they are coming to get the ball instead of going back tho their spot along the endline behind the AR when they are not in goal. Otherwise, if they are not kicking, they have no business coming out to get the ball.
OK, I see the idea--though the GK has no obligation to tell you and there is no obligation on the team to have even decided if he is going to be in the first 5. I've never had an issue with this. If the GK is coming out, I see that as the time to ask if he is coming to take the next PK. Tends to be pretty obvious in my experience, and I'm not inclined to ask a question that the player/team has no obligation to answer. (But I grant that, given how many refs stills seem to think the coach has to provide the list of the 5 kickers, I doubt a GK would decline to answer.)
I have seen the list of proposed high school rule changes. I don't have the list here handy, but there are something like 50 plus proposals. However, for many of the three or four major IFAB changes from 2019 there were three or four proposals related to each change. If memory serves, goal kick, drop ball, attackers in the wall. Chad Collins, from Kentucky, was the chair up through 2019 and he submitted a well worded proposal for all of the major ones, so my response (on behalf of our state association) was that Chad's proposal should be adopted instead of the others, which were frequently worded in ways that created slight new differences from IFAB. Don't go there! Although it isn't officially structured that way, the committee usually is one third administrators, one third coaches and one third officials, so technical changes have to be explained very slowly and carefully to the administrators, most of whom have little or no knowledge of how the game is actually played, coached or refereed.
Yes, I did know that the NFHS rule book section is called "Sample Tie-Breaking Procedures." At our interpretation meeting, we were told that is what New York State follows. I could have sworn that kicking order was included in the NFHS rule book. However, this is the instruction that we were given at our interpretation meeting this fall: 1. Officials determine which goal to use 2. Coaches submit five players, in kicking order 3. Coin flip, visitors call; winner chooses to kick first or second 4. Complete all 5 kicks (unless a winner is determined in 3 or 4 kicks) 5. If still tied, coaches submit a list of 5 different kickers 6. Sudden victory; kick for kick 7. If still tied after 10 total PKs, coaches submit new lists (all players now eligible again) 8. Sudden victory, kick for kick 9. New lists submitted every 5 kicks I guess New York really doesn't do NFHS if it requires order of kickers.