mwulf... I get your point. Why do you keep commenting? And yes, his current goalkeeper coach just finished training the Jamaican National team goalkeepers when they were here for Gold Cup, and also regularly helps out with US National team, and multiple mls teams. So he does have a little experience.
Well first, like you, I just enjoy conversation…. Secondly, I wasn’t directing my comment solely at you…I find the advice of having a former Keeper as coach (which I took to mean head coach, not trainer) of questionable value….
Honestly I don't think you know what your talking about. Many professional coaches with professional or college playing experience have spent some time as goalkeeper. I didn't think that was a bad recommendation. Your whole bitter attitude of this conversation seems like you are only trying to believe the B.S. lines that coaches are telling you, only trying to get your money. "We're not winning, but the kids are improving". Not winning is fine, but most children enjoy winning over losing. In good soccer, the more talented team wins most games. I'm guessing your idea of development means they will magically become a superstar on their 18 birthday, after not winning any "meaningless trophies" their entire life. Somehow, they will get picked up by ManU, after never making it to a final, because they never won anything. You place all this emphasis on "development" anyways. My son plays soccer because it's fun, and he's good at it. Winning is fun. I place my son at the club he is, because this club and this coach wins, because they understand how to develop players. A few recent "meaningless trophies" from my sons coach include 2 national championships with an older team, surf cup, dallas cup, man City cup, and had all 19 players on their aged-out team get college scholarships. What credentials do you have making all these statements, that would show more about development, than winning everything that youth soccer has to offer, and have them continue their playing career past club level?
I couldn't disagree with this more. I think that is one reason why the US is relatively strong at the keeper position; because it isn't as heavily technical (or tactical) as a field position. This makes it easier to pick up at an older age. Plus there is emphasis on the hands in traditional sports in the US. That said, we have lived in Argentina and Costa Rica and they let kids specialize as keepers at a relatively early age (around 9) there. I still wouldn't let my kid go that route. I would rather he develops the technical side of his game at a young age. As has been mentioned above, you never know how the kid is going to turn out physically (his mother and I are opposite extremes of height). To add in another two cents; in Argentina they take the educational part of soccer very seriously. The focus is not just on winning. The average dad is much more knowledgeable about the game than the US dad, though.
I am just a parent…I have no credentials; I claim no expert status…feel free to discard anything I have to say… Simple demographics and statistics would dispel the idea that most coaches with professional or college playing experience have spent any significant time in Goal…given that teams carry 3-4 keepers, at most, while carrying 15-20+ field players, the numbers just don’t add up to make that a true or likely statement…. Given the unlikelihood of even finding a former Keeper U-little coach (and I would still question the value, if you did), there are still far more important attributes to look for in a coach…it wasn’t bad advice per say, just not all that useful…like advising someone to wear blue cleats over red ones…and just so we are on the same page, coach and trainer are not the same thing…. In my experience, it’s the adults (parents and coaches) who place far more emphasis in winning then do young children… sure, winning is fun…but most kids just enjoy playing…and far too many adults suck the fun right out of it if their kids aren’t always winning or winning enough…. But with that said, we win just fine, thanks…and I wouldn’t say I am bitter…overall, I have nothing to be bitter about…my son (U13) has had generally decent coaching over the years, I would say very good the last few, although hardly perfect; he is developing quite nicely, and has had his share of success, both individually and as part of team, and most importantly, we have all had a lot fun along the way…as objectively as I can be, I think he’s probably on path to make varsity as a Freshmen, and maybe play low-level college if he wants it and works hard enough…not that it’s all been a bed of roses…I’ve experience a few things, and seen even more…if anything, I would say I am bit skeptical, maybe a tad cynical…in a few years, you’ll probably understand me better… Besides, you’re the one eating up being told his 8 year old is a superstar….however, I question whether you know what actual talent is or good development looks like…in youth soccer is really easy to appear a superstar at a very young age by simply being physically more developed then their peers… faster, stronger, bigger, more agile, etc…and lets be blunt, the only/biggest reason your son is playing for this “high caliber” team is because he is exceptionally tall for his age…that’s great and all, but being tall isn’t actual talent or skill…of course, being “athletic” earlier on does open doors and opportunities…it just a matter of if and how we, as parents, take advantage of them for our kids…. Quietly frankly, as parent, you having to negotiate for token/garbage playtime in the field for you son, tells me in all likelihood your coach is far more concerned about winning then he is about his overall, fundamental development…changes are, he’s not doing your son any favors, he’s just using him to win games…U-littles is the time to learn basic fundamental foot skills, and that is best done with the ball under foot in the field, not mostly standing around with gloves on playing catch… There is nothing magically about it; it’s a marathon, not a sprint, and early success does not denote or guarantee later success, and anyone who suggest otherwise, is just feeding you a line…there is just nothing all that meaningful about being successful (as defined as winning shit) at a young age or pre-puberty…just think of all those Little League Champs who have gone on the play in MLB…at last count, all 40 of them (since 1947)…. On “older” teams, I would agree wins and achievements become more important and meaningful…but I believe we have been specifically talking about U-littles…at U-littles, sound, fundamental skills development is far more important than wins or trophies… in few years down the road, those coveted trophies right now will mean very little; but the foot skills learned are the building block for everything that comes next/later…and if he doesn’t have those basic building blocks, the “fun” will likely end sooner than later…modern day keepers are expected to have outstanding foot skills…. Just because a club wins lots of stuff doesn’t necessarily mean they are good at developing players…but I understand why you would make that assumption… unfortunately, it’s a bit naïve….there are clubs who are good at recruiting; there are clubs that are good at developing players; there are clubs who do both…I have no idea what your club does…and quite frankly, I’d be very shocked if you do either….but it sure sounds like you have memorized the club brochure…Just because they win at U8 and win at U17 doesn’t mean there is direct connection between the two… if they are recruiting at U8, changes are they are recruiting at higher ages as well… But with that said and regardless, I am sure your club is decent enough and does teach good soccer…but even decent clubs/coaches use kids….do them wrong…even while winning everything under the sun….and as a parent, you should at least understand the possibility exists that clubs/coaches might not always have your kids best interest at heart…if winning=development, as you say it does, then the pressure to win can be enormous on these clubs/coaches….and under that pressure, they just might do your kid wrong, use them, screw them over, or do them a huge disservice…all in the name of winning, *cough*, development…
I'd see if the club has a goalkeeper coach. Goalkeeper training is literally completely different than the training that field players get.
I think that the idea that the keeper is a "less technical" position is exactly why countries like Argentina, England, and others produce less quality keepers on average than the US does. Keeper development in the US is far ahead of the development of field players because there is a culture of sports in the US that trains keepers in keeper skills with other sports. That makes it easier for players who have developed hand-eye coordination, ball flight anticipation, physical aggression, leaping, diving, etc, etc, to get between the sticks and make difficult plays. The idea that keeper is a "less technical" position comes from those who do not appreciate or know the position. Playing with a ball at your feet is only one tiny part of the array of skills that a keeper needs to do his job. There is a skill needed for just about every situation a keeper finds themselves in.
You wouldn't want a baker teaching you how to make sauces would you? Maybe in certain circumstances, but that's not what your preference would be in a vacuum. I played soccer at the highest level in one of the most competitive leagues in the country for a long time. I played for a lot of coaches. I played for several former professionals. During the time that I spent with a head coach who was a keeper, I grew by leaps and bounds. In one season he taught me more than I had learned from all of my other coaches combined. We're talking just a few months here. By the end of the season the team parents all stayed over with me and watched me train while the other players ran drills because it was entertaining. The guy was good because he knew what he saw and he knew how to develop what he saw and it made a difference. Now, it appears that you may be kind of stuck in your ways. I don't think that this will change your mind. But to the folks who are looking for advice on what to do with their kids who are possible keepers...this is the best route. Once your kid decides on keeper and you feel comfortable that they are okay with that commitment, find them a keeper coach. This is common knowledge in competitive clubs...the keepers will have a keeper coach. So if your club does not have a coach on staff who is a keeper, leave that club and find one who does. Do that as early as possible.
So, if I am hearing you correctly, you spent one season with a coach who happened to be a former keeper… Doesn’t that somewhat validate what I am saying that keeper coaches are somewhat rare… Now, if you are talking trainer, then yeah, most clubs will have club-level Keeper trainers on staff…and as I’ve already said, posts ago, they would be expected to be former Keepers themselves… I know that the term coach and trainer gets thrown around interchangeably all the time…but for this topic, I think we need to be very clear what we’re referring to…especially before we start advising people to leave their club in what might be an unnecessary search for greener pastures… I do have strong opinions on the matter, but I am not unwilling to listen or/and learn…can I ask you how old you were when had this head coach who was a keeper?
Tell that to Steve Clark... But seriously, I don't think you should devalue the importance of foot skills for modern day keepers....
Thank you. It sounds like you really understand the position, what work goes into it, and the importance of the position and training. He has a great licensed goalkeeper trainer which he practices for 2 days a week. He also practices 2 hours a week with his team, mostly on footwork, passing, shooting. His club currently does not have any head team coaches that were specialized keepers throughout their careers, only a few with keeper experience. However, his trainer attends some games, and watches videos of games that he plays in, which I like.
Absolutely… There are now two questions on the table…. First, when is the right age to specialize as a goalkeeper? Second, how to train for goalkeeper once you do [hit the right age]? For the second question, you won’t get much debate for me…I would agree that keeper training is highly specialized and intensely different from field players… But for the first question, I think you're way off base advocating for such training at such an early age…at least without having the integrity to acknowledge the enormous risk one takes by doing so… There are many examples of youth field players who later in their career transition into becoming very successful keepers, even as late as high school and beyond…yet you don’t hear too many stories of youth keepers who have become successful in the field later in life… I respect your experience and resume, but the simple fact is that the vast majority of kids will never come close to the level of play you achieved…and giving one-sided advise like they all will is pretty irresponsible ihmo…
As long as he's getting weekly training from a keeper coach who is challenging him and forcing him to grow, he should be fine. He should be getting worked to exhaustion by his coach while the team works on their drills. It sounds like he's in a good position to succeed.
We lucked out with the scheduling for the past few months. Right now, his keeper training is Tuesday and Thursday from 5-6. His team training is 5:30 - 7. So he misses the first half hour of team training. You may have missed it in earlier posts, but his keeper trainer used to play for Chivas, (Guadalajara I believe), and still is contracted out be mls teams, colleges, and national teams. We really hit the jackpot with his services. He allows my son (only 7 years old) to practice with 3 other boys age 11 and 12, who are also great keepers for their age. I understand what you mean by "to exhaustion". That's pretty much the point he takes it to. Experienced coaches know their kids, and how hard to work them, and when to back off.
If his keeper coach is working him to actual exhaustion…which once again, has a pretty specific meaning in area of sport/physical training from 5-6, how in the heck is he able to train, at any kind of decent of safe level, with his team from 6-7… Yes, I have no doubt your keeper coach is top quality and works you boy well and hard, but I would hopefully assume nowhere close to exhaustion with that schedule… Admittedly, I have no idea how intense either training sessions actually are…but under this type of back to back training schedule (which honestly is less than ideal), you definitely want to make sure both coaches understand what the other is doing in order to lower/manage the risk of overtraining…
By the looks of your picture, you shouldn't be giving exercise advise. I think this statement is just as bad as all the rest of the statements you made. I guess this is a forum, so anyone can voice their opinion, but hopefully your opinion on this thread will end soon.
Ah, more childish personal attacks…nice… Yes, it’s a forum…a place to share experiences and advise, and many cases debate, ideas and opinions…sorry you’re struggling with the concept so and insist on taking everything so personally… But once again, feel free keep your blinders on and disregard and insult anything you don’t want to hear…
Pretty much right on. Age 7 - 12 are critical for development, but a kid taught some basic keeping fundamentals that playing basketball, while doing some gymnastics or wrestling combined with play at midfield or forward would be very close if not better position become a full-time keeper if physical ability and interest were in it as a teen. If not the kid would be in far better position to move in a non-keeping direction in life. In terms of technique - I had a kid that was a fantastic keeper at U10. Tried to get him to also play on the field because I thought he would have a better chance as a field player than a keeper when he grew up due to height. Kid was not interested and left for another team where the coach was more than happy to have a quality keeper to help him win games. 4 years later when ODP types were looking at keepers the they wanted was one of my part-time keepers at U10 who was a lot bigger, had great distribution and foot skills because he primarily a field player and had great command of the box because he played a lot of basketball and was used to fighting for the ball in traffic. The other kid ended up turning down ODP keeper invite because he was not interested in being a keeper, but instead went on to become a very good forward.
Very few teams I've seen do this - usually it is an earlier developing kid that has some interest in playing keeper. I was very much an oddball coach at that level in that I could have 4 different pre-teen kids in goal in one of the more competitive select leagues in the country. Then when you look at U16 and U18 teams warming up in a tournament like Dallas cup, you see that for many teams the keeper is one of the shorter players and you know why. Of course when you look at high level college teams or professional keepers they are all bigger players again.
Probably not the best idea to attempt to make snide remarks about someone trying to help another person that could probably use it. You do realize that you can post any image you'd like don't you?
Based on what you wrote in your entire post, and this post in particular leads me to question the level of training you'd had. By and large, the coaching in this country while improving, is still not very good, even in some of the higher level leagues. What seem to be describing here is a true keeper coach. Most top teams will either have one as part of their training coaching staff or at least have on available for training. One area where having a former keeper as a head coach, is that they are more likely to do a better job of effectively integrating keepers into training activities with field players. When working with younger kids I have all my kids do some keeper drills as they tend to be very good core work and helpful for kids to control their body.
I agree with that. keeper training basically helps a child develop into a better all around athlete, preparing them excel at whatever position/sport they eventually want to persue. Game time helps them deal with pressure and helps them make decisions under pressure. Only certain kids enjoy this, others do not.
On keeper the future of the keeper is the sweeper/keeper not just being a keeper you need foot skills to play the sweeper/keeper. Another specialized position is the striker. Not every player gets striker training it comes after regular practice is over. Even the great Gerhard Mueller got it at the end of practice. He once said he had to put up with regular practice first before they would let him do it.
Between regular team practice and a good goalkeeper coach that incorporates foot skills into practice, I believe most good clubs will agree with this statement and prepare goalkeepers for this.