When can a sub be recalled?

Discussion in 'Referee' started by SccrDon, Sep 14, 2015.

  1. SccrDon

    SccrDon Member+

    Dec 4, 2001
    Colorado Springs
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My apologies if something like this has been asked before...

    In Saturday's COL-DCU match, COL had a defensive sub lined up (sub is with the 4O) when DCU scored a tying goal late in the 2nd half. COL went ahead with the sub :confused:. My question is this - did they have to, or could COL have made a different sub at that point? I think that the sub can be recalled/revised up until the moment he is an active player, and that this was a (yet another) questionable coaching decision to go ahead with the defensive sub.

    Thanks for your input.
     
  2. oxwof

    oxwof Member

    Sep 6, 2014
    Ohio
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I believe that's correct. Now, in pulling back the first sub the team probably loses the ability to sub until the next stoppage, but that's unlikely to be a big consideration unless they're down a player.
     
  3. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In this case the Rapids were subbing out their lone striker for a d-mid. I'm pretty sure they either wouldn't have wanted to sub at all at that point or would be happy to leave the current lineup in place until the next chance.
     
  4. SccrDon

    SccrDon Member+

    Dec 4, 2001
    Colorado Springs
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jason, I'm not sure of that at all. It is the same manager that has started 4 DMs...
     
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  5. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I should rephrase:

    In this case the Rapids were subbing out their lone striker for a d-mid. I'm pretty sure a competent manager either wouldn't have wanted to sub at all at that point or would be happy to leave the current lineup in place until the next chance.
     
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  6. La Rikardo

    La Rikardo Moderator

    May 9, 2011
    nj
    A substitute becomes a player when he enters the field after having been given permission by the referee to enter. At that point, the player leaving the match becomes a substituted player and the substitution is final. The substitution can be retracted at anytime before the moment the substitute becomes a player.
     
  7. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004

    And there is nothing in the laws that says the player to be subbed out actually has to come off!
     
  8. Gary V

    Gary V Member+

    Feb 4, 2003
    SE Mich.
    How about this?
     
  9. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    If the player refuses to come off? Meaning he doesn't fulfill the "has left" part?
     
  10. bhooks

    bhooks Member

    Apr 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    The interpretations say if the player doesn't want to leave then you just keep playing
     
  11. Gary V

    Gary V Member+

    Feb 4, 2003
    SE Mich.
    Correct.

    And if you're working in one of those areas where it is common to allow the subs in before the player has left ("to make things go faster"), then you've got yourself a problem.
     
  12. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    Yes, you do, and it's one of your own devise, but it's not really an insoluble one, is it?
    So, even though the uncooperative one is still on the field, she's now a substitute, not a player, and if she refuses to leave, you can caution her. (The guidance to continue play assumes that you did it right and the sub hasn't come on yet, so no substitution has taken place.)
     
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  13. Thezzaruz

    Thezzaruz Member+

    Jun 20, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Sweden
    Yea just tell the player that just come on to get his/her ass back off the pitch.


    Nope. Even though you might have fulfilled that one part of the procedure you haven't fulfilled the whole procedure and thus the substitution isn't completed. This is definitely one of those things where sticking to your guns could lead to a successful protest. Besides why would you as the referee want to mess about with a case of troublesome internal team discipline???
     
  14. Dr. Gamera

    Dr. Gamera Member+

    Oct 13, 2005
    Wheaton, Maryland
    The speculations about possible cases in which refusal to be replaced might happen -- I've never seen in it practice -- are more to do with changes in the score than in team discipline issues. For example: scoreless match, team needs a win, striker reports to the fourth official to sub in for a central defender, next stoppage is that team scoring. Now the team doesn't actually want to make the sub.
     
  15. Thezzaruz

    Thezzaruz Member+

    Jun 20, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Sweden
    So they don't, what's the issue?
     
  16. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    #16 Bubba Atlanta, Sep 23, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2015
    As a footnote, the answer is different under NFHS Rules:
    [numbering might have changed - that's from my old book]

    Also, the substitute becomes a player as soon as she is beckoned, regardless of whether she has entered the field:
    Now, how you're supposed to know who it is she's supposed to be replacing, if it matters, I have no idea. I hope I never have to figure that one out.
     
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  17. Thezzaruz

    Thezzaruz Member+

    Jun 20, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Sweden
    That's kind of interestingly worded. What would happen if the coach withdraws player A12 before he's beckoned by the referee? Presumably there's no sub as it seems to be the beckoning that seals the deal, right?
     
  18. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
  19. Vinnydabody

    Vinnydabody Member

    Jun 10, 2014
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Under NFHS, the sub is supposed to report to the scorer the number of the player they are replacing. Rule 3-4-1.
     
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  20. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    Excellent point.

    How many of us get scorers to whom subs actually report?
     
  21. Eastshire

    Eastshire Member+

    Apr 13, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Since actually having a scorer is not required under NFHS rules, I have never had one. If there is no scorer, the substitute is supposed to report to the nearest referee who they are entering for before being beckoned, but this (almost) never happens in practice.
     
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