Ok, no offense, but this two sentence paragraph, run on sentences, and general inability to coherently make any point means I won't be continuing this discussion. Cheers.
again as I pound the facts repeatedly do you reply with facts proving ur point...nope you start talking about commas lol enjoy ur feelings i'll enjoy being right...how do you like this post so at the end of the day to those replying to the question proven false a mls bias in the roster doesnt exist euro players will continue to be picked
Heisman Trophy winner Gino Torretta vs. 7th round pick Tom Brady. Heisman Trophy winner Johnny Manziel vs. well...anyone? How many coaches actually make a Tom Brady, Russel Wilson or Dak Prescott type find? And yet here we are needing Gregg Berhalter to make a bunch of them - at least 11. Borrowing from your example and extending the logic: can Berhalter be the Bill Belichik of U.S. soccer? I see MLS as giving Berhalter a chance to be the coach who gets to pick from all of the diamonds in the mine and keep the best ones. Of course, if the quality of the diamonds isn't too good then those that you actually pick may not be worth much anyways. And if Berhalter finds one, it essentially means that all of the Jose Mourinho, Rafa Benitez and Roberto Martinez types missed it. How likely is that to happen? This is a new role for Berhalter. There is a learning curve with any new job. I'm hoping GB's learning curve in this role doesn't flatten for a while. I'm willing to give GB some time. At the same time, Trapp remains a big question mark to me. Other choices aren't impressing, but I also see some that hold promise. Bottom line: ask me after the Gold Cup. We'll be as good a team as our record says we are.
Thanks for the fulsome response. I thought your point was: “It’s understandable that Berhalter is choosing players in a lesser league over those in higher or similar leagues because he knows them better even though the level of play required is materially above the level he’s used to.” He should know that much of MLS is not Brady but are Vince Young or Manziel. He should be discriminating with MLS rather than delving deep and trying to move Adams out of his position in order to build a team around WiIl Trapp. Instead, he reminds me of Chip Kelly who kept drafting and reading for Oregon Ducks and other PAC10 players and ignoring other options. It turned out disastrously under his watch (but the SB Phoenix rose out of those ashes!)
I see a preference for MLSers. Is it a pro-MLS bias, or is it fear of ticking of Euro clubs or Euro players? Or is it a sensible use of Euros; do we really need them to come here for friendlies? I’d like to see more 2 game friendly swings in Europe, in order to avoid the travel issues for, let’s face it, our best prospects. But the new international league in Europe makes that really difficult. Maybe we could, for example, play Algeria in Marseilles and Nigeria in London. In the YA forum, posters in general are rabidly anti MLS. I’d say the “center of gravity” there is against calling in Euros even for the Gold Cup. Posters there get pissed off at interfering with the club careers of Pulisic and Miazga and McKenzie. I bring that up just to make the point that as European club soccer increases in financial stakes, and the number of club games slowly, slowly increases, it’s a damn complicated issue.
It is very interesting that that folks who who most strongly claimed Klinsmann had a bias against MLS players are the one who are denying there is one now. I think it comes down to MLS fans just being naive, unkowledgeable about the game (and sports in general), and many are jjust plain dumb. I am quite perplexed by many parts of this post. Osario is biased towards Liga MX players - 9 Liga MX players including Vela on 2018 WC side. Klinsman biased toward German/Euro players - 9 MLS players on 2014 WC side Bradley had a good mix of MLS/Euro players - 3 MLS player on 2010 WC side It looks like the only thing you got right is that Arena and Berhalter to date had a bias toward crappy MLS players.
You and your MLS buddies go after JK for 2+ years becuse he put little Landon out of the squad and yet someone asking why Trapp and Bradley are leading our midfield, Gonzalez is still sucking in our defense, and our roster is filled with the likes of Baird, Lima, Lewis, Lovitz, etc are on our roster when players who showed they could play at this level in 2018 are available is an issue for you? You guys are a joke. I mean what could go wrong with playing poor MLS players on the USMNT?
Right NOW - as of may 2019 - if you made a team of the americans in europe and a team of mlsers....the americans in europe would destroy the americans in mls.... so i cannot fathom why you would assert that GB's job is finding diamonds in the rough in MLS or bust (and that that is a fool's errand)......and am even more perplexed by the idea that GB failing with a MLS-heavy approach would equate with how "good" the USMNT actually is or isn't. (in my opinion, a national team of only euro-based americans (as of 2019) coached by a great coach would beat all recent iterations of the USMNT coached by arena sarachan GB etc that had/have full-access to the whole pool.)
January camp starters vs a quick and probably not optimal 23 from Europe. From the January camp the only guys who would be in my 23 would be steffen, who is leaving, and maybe Long, but unlikely. Steffen vs Horvath/Steffen Lima vs Yedlin/Dest Zimmerman vs Miazga/CCV Long vs Brooks/EPB Lovitz vs Robinson/Gloster Trapp/Bradley vs Adams Roldan vs Mckennie/Mendez Mihailovic vs Pulisic/Ledesma Baird vs Holmes/T Boyd Zardes vs Sargent/Boyd/Wood Arriola/Ebobisse vs Weah/Amon
In a nutshell, what you are saying is simply that our European players are better than our MLS based players. We all know that. GB's short term challenge will be to find MLS players that will challenge the European based ones and thus contribute to USMNT success. I'll have a better assessment and a stronger opinion - as we all should - after the Gold Cup.
do we? do we all know that? This latest roster didn't prove that GB knows that....he seems read to ride or die with MLSers at least for the time being....I mean he's ignoring a bunch of Euro-based players, imo. We'll see how it plays out...but early results say we don't all know that the euro players are better.....
Gold Cup roster is more grist for the mill. MLS: 16 players EPL: 1 B1: 2 Portugal: 1 championship: 3 Trapp/Bradley as DM > Adams as DM Bradley/Trapp > Morales (to even make the 40 man squad) Morris > Sargent/Wood (isn't Morris in season?) Gonzalez > Carter Vickers Lewis/Lovitz > Johnson/Chandler/Amon/Robinson I'm guessing that Holmes would be off the roster if not for Lletget's injury as well.
And the same with the other end of the distribution. Personally, I'm most interested in the ones in between.
it would be interesting to hear a full-throated defense of each of these decisions and in totality: Trapp/Bradley as DM > Adams as DM Bradley/Trapp > Morales (to even make the 40 man squad) Morris > Sargent/Wood (isn't Morris in season?) Gonzalez > Carter Vickers Lewis/Lovitz > Johnson/Chandler/Amon/Robinson
This bias for MLS players is completely evident and one of the glaring weaknesses in the way GB has put his squad together. This: Trapp/Bradley as DM > Adams as DM Bradley/Trapp > Morales (to even make the 40 man squad) Morris > Sargent/Wood (isn't Morris in season?) Gonzalez > Carter Vickers Lewis/Lovitz > Johnson/Chandler/Amon/Robinson is a total joke.
For me it is simple and has nothing to do with bias but rather it is that there are more MLS players that fit Greg B's "system" and that is the driving force behind all but a few selections. Greg B is system first and player second and since he was formed by the MLS it is only logical that more players that play in the MLS are available that fit hos limited and short sited mold. It is stupid to place system first but that is what we have because Greg B is not smart enough to look at a group of players and devise a system that maximizes the current attributes of the players so he cannot pick many players that do not step right into his vision of the system. It is what will continue to make the US a second or third tier soccer nation. We have no creativity or imagination starting at the top so we cannot expect a coach selected by the dregs of the soccer universe to actually be a good coach.
I don't like to get into this kind of conversation, but I will. There were 3 central midfielders that all were pretty much the same quality playing at the same time. IMHO, they were all less than adequate. Duane Holmes came on, btw, he plays in the second tier of English soccer, and immediately made an impact. Something that the 3 starters of MLS pedigree could not. It was plain to see. Amon came on and showed more hustle in his short time on the field than was displayed earlier. Same assessment. I am glad we have a major league in America and hope for it to thrive forever. It has raised the bar, but it does not compare to the first or second or third levels of play in Europe. sorry, but it's just the fact. Plus, overlooking some of the players from over there in favor of some of the MLs'ers is also bias/bad coaching, at best. If we really want to make some noise in this game outside of C'CAF, we have to put bias aside and use our best players, no matter where they come from.
There's just no hard-and-fast rule on the MLS vs. European-based players. For example, Trapp had a good game just a few months ago against Ecuador.. Zardes has had his (infrequent) moments for USMNT, too. Meanwhile, European-based guys like Yedlin, Brooks, Ream, and Wood have been inconsistent at best; sometimes, just plain bad. And, for the moment, Michael Bradley probably would be a good CM for the squad. Can European experience help? Absolutely. MB's overseas' experience is probably what's kept him at least a halfway decent player. Jordan Morris, just as a completely random example, is just a shell of the player he could be had he at least spent some significant time in Germany.