What's your take on USMNT preference for MLS?

Reyna is 17, Uly is 18, there's not reason to have them with the U-23.

Glad and McKenzie are in much better form than CCV, who plays for a team that already belongs in the League One, and CCV is one of their problems.

Robinson is another guy in a team that is hovering above relegation to the third division. Vines is comparable, at this point.

 

You have no evidence that the guys people are clamoring for are not going to execute Berhalter's plans better than the guys he has chosen. Most have little to no international experience, and few have played under Berhalter, ironically save the players like Holmes that you begrudgingly acknowledge might be decent.

Like a broken record, most of your post conversations on here with myself and others can be boiled down to:

You: "The players called in that we're talking about suck, but there is nothing you could suggest that's better!"

Another poster: "How about we give A, B, C, D, E, and F a shot?"

You: "A, B, and C are OK, but the rest are awful, each for different reasons, some that contradict each other. Also, let me bring up Haji Wright/Julian Green/Jonathan Amon depending on who's injured/playing poorly, despite the fact that nobody mentioned them. Everyone is suggesting that we play one of these strawmen players that I have named, and they don't understand soccer/are playing FIFA."

People are not using "rhetoric" against you, they are using evidence-based arguments to refute your ever-shifting criteria of what constitutes a notably better player/team, and the value of a better player/team for the MNT.

 

Look Ma, a strawman!

On the somewhat substantive part of your post, Glad's no better than he was 2 years ago, and no better than CCV, who has been a decent player on a bad CShip team THIS year, but who also has stints on superior Championship teams AND a long time in the Spurs development system.

Remember when Lletget spent 6 years in the West Ham youth teams, then walked into LAG as a lock starter? CCV similarly spent significant time in an excellent EPL academy, yet because he happend to be on loan to a bad Championship team NOW, he's given zero credit and labeled a League One talent.

What was the excuse last year, or the year before that, when he was on playoff/mid-table Championship teams? Did he regress? Doubt it, nobody would've signed him on loan, nor would he be starting games.

This kind of BS happens all the time with Championship players, by the way. Did Miazga suddenly turn to crap because he was saving Reading from relegation as opposed to playing well for Vitesse? No, but because he had a bad 1/4th season on the bench at Nantes, we suddenly couldn't call him up, and he doesn't count as a snub.

Mark McKenzie's benching in favor of WVU's own Jack Elliot is conveniently forgotten. As is when he got severely outplayed by Bayern Munich's Chris Richards, who is a clearly more-talented player. Instead, the cry is that Richards is too young to beat out an MLS player who he already beat out at the U20's, and his U19 Bayern experience is poo-pooed in favor of Mckenzie playing a handful of games for Philly.

The fact is, if you create a consistent criteria that you apply to all players regardless of league, then you are almost guaranteed to find issues with these rosters.

 

At this point if you don't think there has been a notable change in player selection tilted towards MLS since Berhalter got selected you are frankly gaslighting everyone else, haven't been paying attention, or think that our player pool has changed so much that our best players are only based stateside now.

NOBODY denied when Sacharan was head coach that he was calling up the youth in spades. Many of those players saw little to zero continuity once Berhalter became manager. And the ones that did (Wil Trapp) have been given enough rope to hang a cat.

In our September 2018 friendly against Brazil we started 7 European based players. The MLS players at the time? Arriola, Steffen, Adams, and Trapp. Coming in from the bench you had Roldan, Delgado, Weah, Acosta, Zardes, Lichaj, Parker, Bono, and CCV.

Making no judgments on form/injury Delgado, Acosta, Lichaj, Parker, Bono, CCV, Julian Green, Miazga, Robinson, and Bobby Wood haven't really been called back.

On the other hand players that have had increased or consistent roles from that roster that got their chance after Couva with positive to negative results have been Trapp, Roldan, Zardes, Arriola, Adams, Steffen, and McKennie. Weah has been out due to injury so we have no idea how Gregg feels about him.

I think it's clear that Steffen, Adams, and McKennie have big roles to play for the team. I think Arriola and Zardes have roles to play as well as rotational guys. They both have put in good shifts on occasion in the shirt. Arriola is someone who I think plays his heart out. That matters when you know you need to get a DRAW on the road in Trinidad against a U-23 team. It's underrated, but valuable.

Roldan and Trapp have no business continuing to get call ups. They aren't the answer. They are below the level.

The fact is for whatever reason and this poster hit at it in his post above we've gone from evaluating European club performance on a bit of a curve to suddenly saying that the MLS and Championship are on equal playing fields. Daniel Lovitz playing for Montreal at 28 is considered to be more worthy of a call up than Eric Lichaj CAPTAINING a midtable Championship club at 30. If the results were there I wouldn't care.

But every data point you can point to says that this change in player selection defies logic. We are calling in a heavy cohort of guys from the MLS from an age group (24-30) that failed to qualify for a U-20 World Cup, two consecutive Olympics, AND the first WORLD CUP in an entire generation. There obviously aren't a lot of answers even in Europe in that age group. I won't deny that one bit.... But it's clear that these guys aren't the short or long term answer.

We wasted a year of progress that Sacharan built up. It's gotten so bad that if we beat Canada tonight Gregg's supporters are going to use that as evidence that we should stay the course. Since I've been following the men's national team (casually in 2002, hardcore after 2006) anything but beating Canada has always been assumed.

And guess what if we do beat Canada? Berhalter probably gets bailed out by doing something different like.... Playing an all European back line (Brooks, Ream, Dest, and Yedlin), starting Morales with McKennie, and having Sargent continue to be the starter. Sargent not playing with either the U-20 team or the full team last year 100 percent was a failure and it's Gregg's fault.

 

I have said it before and I will say it again: It is NOT the personnel chosen to play but rather it is the "style" they are forced to play in. Except maybe for Mexico we have plenty of talent in all second choices from nowhere but t he MLS to beat, or at least play even, with any CONCACAF team. All that is required is that a "system" be devised that fits the skill sets brought by the players. That is you devise a system to fit the players not try to shoe horn the players into a system that they cannot possibly play well.

My 12 year old granddaughter noticed in the last match that the US players seemed to be lost in the attempt to play Berhalter's flawed system. (Pretty much a quote of her words except she really did not remember the name of the coach that she called "Mr. Stupid" )

Players that are not at or near the very top of level of play for international soccer cannot easily or quickly adapt to a system they do not play regularly and what Berhalter wants to play is a system that few of the players in the player pool plays.

Berhalter is a VERY poor international coach (even if he is OK at the club level) and will always produce an under-performing international team.

Again, in CONCACAF it is NOT the players it is Berhalter's flawed idea of a system that the majority of the players cannot play well.

 

I'm not saying they are better. I'm just applying the soccer truism: form matters, and a player who is playing is in better form than one who is not.

Between a player playing consistently in a poor league (MLS) and one playing garbage minutes in another poor league (Championship), most managers would choose the guy with consistent minutes.

By crapping on the local players you're helping Egg have excuses too. If all MLSers are garbage, as some of you say, and half of the Europe-based players don't play, and most of the rest are injured, the guy can just throw his arms up and go, "I do what I can."

But that's a lie. I just saw Costa Rica mount a top notch defense with 10 men against 11 from Curaçao, using two CBs from the MLS who played very well.

Berhalter has no excuses.

 

We are calling up guys in their primes that aren't good enough for a club to want to buy them in Europe. Italy's most recent roster? 10 guys aged 22 or younger.

Our roster? 5 guys. McKennie, Sargent, Cannon, Dest, and Yueill. Guess what three of those guys play in Europe and one should shortly (Cannon).

Sure you can say we have the U-23 roster to think about, but clearly if a guy is good enough for our full team he should be called up, regardless of the Olympics. I'd rather give a spot on the U-23 roster to someone that might improve, then to give it to a 28 year old who 100 percent isn't the answer if it means our best players (regardless of being U-23) are playing for the full squad.

Those Costa Rican CBs you cite? One of them Castro played 5 years in top flight Serie A. If Aaron Long gets bought by a Serie A team, Bundesliga, or EPL team and is a starter for 4 straight years I'll leave bigsoccer forever and hail him as our best CB. Outside of Luis Diaz every single one of their MLS players was getting capped before they moved to MLS. That's how it works for countries like Costa Rica and the United States. We cap the best domestically, which indicated to clubs they should be scouting them and then they get bought. Who the hell is buying Wil Trapp, Roldan, or Lletgett?

No they are going to be MLS lifers because their value is more important to MLS because they are American and are better than the pool of domestic American players. International players have to be better in MLS because they have limited spots and it's an opportunity for MLS clubs to go outside of the American player pool based on need.

 

If they're not good enough to start with the U23, what makes you think they're good enough to play with the main team?

Ledezma, Cappis and Sabbi didn't look like anything extraordinary, from the reports. Why this insistence that is enough to live in Europe to magically become a better player?

So if tomorrow some Championship team signs Long, then all of a sudden he becomes starting team material?

It's pure snobbery, DHC.

 

Going to be a rough night.

 

Nope, Long sucks!!!

 

Well, since I didn't watch, I don't know. It may be that Kreis liked Vines better in practice, in which case it means he agrees with me and doesn't see much in Antonee (I remember the way he kept getting "broken" by the Jamaicans, man was that painful to watch).

Robinson is a big puzzle to me because I've never seen anything in the kid. I know people here are rah-rah about him, I guess in this case I must be a minority of one (or two, with Kreis): I just don't see it.

 

That's Egg, not Kreis. I thought we were talking about the U23.

I want Egg gone yesterday!

 

Lovitz is terrible. If I'm saying he's marginally better than Robinson defensively and worse offensively, I'm actually saying Robinson is terrible too.

We have a big problem at LB.

 

No, I think I've been clear about it: I prefer the U23 stay with the U23 if they're good enough to help us qualify to Tokyo.