What's the USMNT identity?

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by DHC1, Oct 17, 2017.

  1. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Well I don't think we'll ever see CP, Woods or Sargent score a goal like the one Donovan did against Brazil in the Confederations Cup. They are not the kind of player that can cover that kind of ground at that kind of speed throughout a game. None of them is that kind of open field player. But I think they would very effective players in a style that emphasized high pressure. Pressure in the other team's half. Make em cough it up and hit em hard.

    That kind of style requires some speed in the back. High pressure leaves you open to the counter from the other team.

    It requires a tremendous workrate, on both sides of the ball, from the mids. CP, McKennie and Adams all have that.
     
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  2. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    I'll be stunned if we fail to make it to Qatar. Other than an '02 like injury situation, I think Qatar will be as relatively easy a qualification as '06-'14 were. Costa Rica and Panama are both going to be worse than their '18 incarnations, and Honduras looks much worse than their '10-'14 iteration. I'm curious what might happen with Canada, T&T and maybe Jamaica, but I definitely think that it will be us, and Mexico, then a drop off, then Costa Rica, then a total mystery come the '21 Hex.

    I also think like most Cups, '22 will depend on the draw. It's been rarely, if ever that it hasn't been that, and I think it will be much the same again. Looking back at '18, even in the disarray we were in, I still think we would've been relatively okay w/the draw Panama had, we wouldn't have advanced, but we would've gotten 1 result. In Costa Rica's group I also think we might have gotten at least one result and we should be substantially better than our '17-'18 iteration by 2022 if our guys are healthy. I'm rather optimistic about everything save for a skittish worry about player health.
     
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  3. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    I do think that we could be good as a high pressure team but would point out that we’ve been really bad at it for a while now.

    I absolutely could see CP score a goal like LD’s as he’s fast and a good finisher. why do you think he couldn’t?

    I 100% agree that woods doesn’t score there and haven’t seen enough of Sargent or Weah.

    Also agreed with the need for speed in the back - I think we need a true DM as well to stop those counters. That’s my biggest concern with the WT/MB as DM concept.
     
  4. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    I should have added, "also the fed". I'm not optimistic at all about the fed. Very optimistic about the players though.
     
  5. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    This is my take as well.

    I don't think that's the way that Berhalter wants us to play, though, and I'm willing to remain open-minded. January camps are only January camps, but he did just give us the best and probably most productive January camp in about a decade, which is a nice change...
     
  6. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    He doesn't think the game as fast. LD had an incisive mind that was well beyond that of any player we've ever had. Pulisic, for all his ability, just isn't a very cerebral player. He doesn't see the game like that.
     
  7. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    We tried going the "everything European is divine" route with Klinsmann and he was heartily cheered by almost everybody for "recruiting" dual nationals.

    The team didn't qualify for the first time ever in the modern era. Reality bites.
     
  8. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    FFS, CP is a couple of months older than LD was at the 2002 WC. CP sees the game much better than 2002 LD. In 2002, LD was a fast young player that played on the wing or as a forward. His so called incisive soccer mind and goal scoring confidence developed after that.

    The 2002 LD doesnt score that confed cup goal either. He didnt see the field as well and didnt have the confidence for the finish.

    I dont see much difference with these two goals except Donovan's is based on speed and CP10's is based on skill.



     
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  9. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    We lost to T&T with Yedlin, Pulisic, Wood, 7 average MLS players and a former "best central defender in MLS".
     
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  10. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Don't understand why people have a hard time understanding why recruiting killed us. It should be really easy. The media isn't gonna risk the politically incorrect tag but around here people could discuss rationally.

    Why were we playing with a "former" best central defender in MLS. Why not the current one?
     
  11. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    I dont think recruiting killed us and dont think we enough it in 2018 cycle. Soft players and complacency killed us.
     
  12. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    I can’t believe that anyone would blame dual nationals for either their play or for locker room issues in the Hex.

    You can do better.
     
  13. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Truth is, outside Jones, our duals didn't perform as well as expected for us.
     
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  14. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Truth is, outside Pulisic, our players didn't perform as well as expected for us.
     
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  15. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    In Descending Order of Importance (could change my mind):
    *No lineup changes for rest purposes and tactical approach for game (Terrible coaching decision from Arena)

    *Complacent Attitude on Matchday 10 and throughout cycle

    *Horrific Player development track record from 1990-1996

    *Terrible Team Chemistry

    *Injuries to JAB, Morris and other players.

    *Terrible Coaching Performance by Klinsmann

    *Bad Luck (Hit the post in the game, Panama scores phantom goal on ball that actually went out of bounds rather than into net, Honduras bounces a shot off the back of Mexican Keepers head and into the net, and none of this takes into account the worst US Own Goal since Agoos against Portugal (and worse than that actually) and the rocket that should have been closed down AND should have been saved and neither happened. There's a reason we were given what, a 94% chance of advancement when we had the first half kickoff. It took an outrageous amount of misfortune for us to fall out of any chance of qualification and literally ALL the possibilities happened on Matchday 10 from egregious ref error, to comically hilarious goal, to disastrous gut punch miracle goals, to disastrous post shots before we even take into account that the team played like total dog doo.

    Not sure, but that looks about right to me.

    This is one of the innumerable reasons why I see us qualifying w/o too much trouble if we're healthy in 2021. In 2017 literally nothing went right in virtually any game of major consequence which could turn either way save for the Wood poach at the death of the game at Honduras. Other than that everything that could go wrong that cycle did:

    Bad Coaching: Check
    Complacency: Check
    Injuries:Check
    Horrible Ref Decisions: Check (it can be argued, if the ref gets the red card right in the home game against Costa Rica, we probably qualify before the T&T roadie entirely)
    Chemistry Issues: Check
    Bad Player Development: Check
    Bad Leadership:Check
    Decline in Player Quality: Check
    Roster Too Old: Check
    Terrible Front Office: Check


    EVERYTHING WENT WRONG, and we were still a post/a red card against Costa Rica/a ridiculous own goal or rocket shot against T&T/a no goal call on the horrific phantom goal given to Panama/a goalie that doesnt let a ball go in through wacking off the back of his head/A single damn good coaching decision in the Costa Rica/Mexico/and the T&T game away from qualifying.

    If we could come that close with all of that wrong with the fed and the team, I just find it hard to believe we'll struggle in 2021 with a younger and better team, better coach, and inferior versions of Costa Rica/Honduras/Panama (hell the latter two teams might not even make the hex, then again we've also almost missed it before) to the 2018 iterations.
     
  16. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United, anywhere Pulisic plays
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They are nothing alike. Come on!
     
  17. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Player picked the ball up near the center circle, made a run forward, gave up the ball, beat defenders, and got the ball back and scored.

    The differences were in the ordering. Donovan gave up the ball, ran forward, received the ball, beat a defender by faking a shot back and cutting back before scoring. CP ran with the ball alluding defenders, played a quicker give and go, and then finished.
     
  18. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Nice post. The only real comment is it only mentions Arena's poor decisions for the T&T game. He took a team that was struggling and tore it apart. He created the complacent vibe which wasnt present before he took over. I don't necessarily think it was the same lineup, but the wrong lineup. He got rid of the German-Americans and benched Cameron for an inferior player.
     
  19. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Easily. Fabian's play last cycle was mostly tepid at best, dog crap at worst.

    By pedigree he should've been one of our best players, but he simply wasn't. Pedigree is overrated.
     
  20. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    I still have time for Brooks. When on his game he's our best CB despite the fact that our CB pool this cycle is clearly better than last.
     
  21. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Are you able to predict when he will be on his game? It might make a big difference.
     
  22. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    No, which is why I am not inking him in. A quick look at the chart would seem to indicate that he's the easy choice to anchor the back line for the cycle, but in reality I only see him a little bit ahead of the pack, and replaceable. Right now our CB pool is solid to the point that nobody ought to have too much benefit of the doubt for poor play. In my head, it's about a 5-horse race (Brooks, Miazga, Long, Zimmerman, CCV) with a couple others (ie Parker) not far from those 5.
     
  23. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United, anywhere Pulisic plays
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've been watching the USMNT since the 1980s. The goal that Donovan scored is, IMO, the greatest goal in the history of US Soccer. I've watched that goal literally hundreds of times. I know every second of it. It's a classic counterattacking goal. The speed and precision with which it was executed was world class, and the Pulisic goal isn't on the same level. It's a nice little goal by Pulisic, but not really so exceptional.
     
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  24. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    I agree that FJ wasn’t one of our best players and played below his ceiling; however he was never the weak link on the field for us. In this way, he reminds me of MB - never really good nor really bad which isn’t great for our good players.

    However, the team wasn’t built around FJ and he wasn’t on the team for our devastating loss to TnT.

    Finally, to blame the dual Americans for locker room issues completely ignored the real genesis which was evidenced by the terrible comments from Wambach (backed by LD) and BA (while an MLS coach). That was truly shameful.
     
  25. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The 4-0 loss to Costa Rica, where the whole team gave up completely doesn't count? It's not like Arena took over a team that was beaming and full of confidence. He didn't really improve the situation much, and made some really terrible coaching errors, but the team's morale was destroyed before he got there.
     
  26. FeedhimtothepigsArold

    Apr 7, 2014
    Club:
    Oxford United FC
    The goal by Pulisic required more footballing skill.

    Not taking anything away fro the LD goal. It may well be the best, or one of the best, goals in USA history depending on who you ask. 3 touches by Landon Donovan. Close to perfect counter attack. It was also a 2 v 2 situation where the 2 defenders got caught sleeping.

    Pulisic took the ball out of the air with his first touch and split 2 defenders. Second touch accelerated then split 2 defenders with the first pass of a 1-2. Simply more skill involved. Not saying LD couldnt have done the exact same thing. Just looking at the 2 goals its pretty obvious that the Pulisic goal required more different football skills to complete the sequence. Dribbling. Control in closes quarters. 1-2....
     
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