I think I've now moved past the first five stage of grief and am now in "Reconstruction & Working Through", although I still fall back into stage 3 anger and stage 4 sad reflection. Therefore, here's a question: what should the USMNT identity be? In the past two cycles, the USMNT has attempted to change our identity dramatically IMO. Historically, we were defensively oriented team whose offense was counter-attacked based and built around creating open space in our opponent's half for our best attacking players (LD and CD). Our defense was reliant upon a constant focus on maintaining defensive structure buttressed by elite athletes (who may be relatively unskilled), excellent goalkeepers and the highest level of grit/determination. JK made it a priority to change our soccer identity to match what he believed was the natural American spirit. We moved to both a more aggressive, pressing scheme and one where we try to control the ball / build from the backline ("attractive" soccer). One result of this change in philosophy is that we frequently lost our defensive structure via too much defensive space between our midfield and backline as we pressed high and had all-too-frequent turnovers in our own half as we tried to build on the ground. Interestingly, JK appeared to acknowledge that we didn't have a full set of players who were both elite athletes and possessed excellent ball skills and chose (1) asking elite athletes to play attractive aggressive soccer rather than (2) asking our relatively skilled players to play athletically. IMO, I can see why JK did this as our elite athletes are athletic enough to go head-to-head on a athletic basis with the best teams in the world while our best skilled players are not competitive on a skill basis vs. the best teams in the world. When JK was dismissed, it seems that BA kept a similar high-press philosophy, although perhaps he meant to switch when made it out of CONCACAF where we could afford to play aggressively because we're more skilled (back to Stages 3 /4!). Should we keep on the path that JK started and accept that this transition may be ugly at first (mission accomplished) but will pay off in the end? Or should we revert to our traditional identity that led us 7 straight World Cup appearance?
Great question. I would like to see a return of the grit and hard work ethic while incorporating our evolving skill improvements. I believe we will most likely have highly athletic players constantly and need to have coaches who can meld the different pieces together. Anyone know any great alchemists that can coach soccer?
My post was clearly a bit binary but it reflect our player pool currently. As we progress, we may be able to incorporate both together but now IMO we need to focus on one vs. the other.
Well since there will hopefully be a reboot, whichever way it goes it needs to reflect the current/future crop of players for the 2022 WC cycle.
Senior level International soccer is about what you've have, not what you want to have. You change styles when you have the talent to play a particular way.
Their identity is sketchy at the present. Like a laugh track comedy troupe. And I agree you need a manager smart enough to know his talent pool and what's possible with that pool so the identity should be fluid each cycle. Toughness and will to win would be a great foundation for all that though.
The first step for any team to win at at the highest level is to be extremely solid defensively. The variation from each team comes in how are you a) going to achieve being defensively solid b) where are you going to apply defensive pressure on the pitch/where are you trying to win possession back of the ball and c) what is your strategy going to be when you win the ball. Germany presses high on the pitch as a team and immediately throws numbers forward when they turn you over in midfield or in their opponents half. They have the Soccer IQ and athleticism as a team to be able to do that. Holland during their deep runs would press you in their 3rd and kill you on the counter with fewer numbers than Germany but with speedy skillful players like Arjen, Van Persi, Wesley and Kutt. Italy denies you space in their third with team defense and then methodically grinds up the field, but they haven't had the players for the last 2 cycles and why they haven't gone through the group in the last 2 consecutive WCs. Spain tries to go for 80% possession. Now these teams all had the ability to possess the ball and mostly break down teams that seeded possession to them. The skill being a) scoring against an organized defense and b) not turning the ball over in a way and area that leaves you open from counters when you are dominating possession. Lesser teams can usually be just as solid and organized as these teams defensively (Think Greece euros, Algeria and CR in 2014 WC) but they are not as competent and skilled in their counters and they can't break down an organized defense. Mexico is poor man's Spain and England is a mentally weak Holland (without as good as players, Gerrard and Rooney while good were never as good as Wesley and Arjen and their back line is usually a mess). Our success has come by being like Greece, but we want to be Germany or Spain,.What we should actually try and be is Holland, very good on counters, very good on set pieces, high work rate, rock solid in the back.
Also if you look at why US failed in the hex, Ultimately it was a lack of being sound defensively. We drop a point through bad marking on late set piece against mexico. Being more solid against that set piece gives us a point and puts us in the WC. Against CR at home, individual defensive breakdowns, bad goal keeping, and unforced defensive errors cost us the game, taking 1 point out of that game and we are in the WC. Incompetent defending and bad goalkeeping gift 2 goals to T&T. The next coach needs to make us solid defensively again. Once that is achieved we can figure out how to deploy Pulisic, and what type of support he needs, to be deadly on the counter. We need a better set piece taker than MB so we are better there as well.
First-term Klinsmann seemed to have achieved that defensive solidity, but he was leaning heavily on two guys who got old in a hurry after the World Cup: Howard and Beckerman. Finding the next great keeper and a number 6 with Beckerman's brain in a more athletic package would do wonders for our defense.
A team who posses athleticism, effort, sufficient technical ability and football i.q., high presses against less talented teams, and counters at pace but under control against better ones. Almost all the presses under Klinsmann and Arena were half-assed and/or with mismatched personnel. They should try to get away from the slow build-up from the back, soft, uncommitted player directive started by Klinsmann and grandfathered in by Arena. The U.S. doesn't have a particularly technical but slow population of sportsmen like Spain or Mexico. Let's not try to be them but rather their kryptonite, as we have before in the past. Only we should try to do it more efficiently, and punk inferior opponents.
Sit back, work hard, defend and counter with speed has been the US identity for a long time. And, when we play top level teams and are out manned, it is still a great way to play. I mean, it's pretty much the defacto strategy for underdogs worldwide for a reason. Unfortunately, you reach a point where teams are willing to defend first and let you try to break them down and we have always been horrible at that and continue to be horrible at that. It's the lack of being able to play pro-actively that Klinsmann was always harping about, even if he never was able to really do anything much about it. I guess I'm saying we are either stuck treading water with the style and identity we have played with for a long time, or we have to evolve something else to make progress. We're basically in a transition period right now and have no discernible identity.
Take a good look at Mexico and Costa Rica, and design a style to frustrate, thrash and humiliate them.
Mr. Klinsmann was in charge of both the development and the senior team so he could dream of changing the style of play. However, training with the national team is not enough. The players need to be in clubs that use the same style. Thus his push for European-based player. Some other national teams have starting XI that play in Europe and their style is different than their national leagues (e.g. Senegal WC 2002). Mr. Bradley used the styled described by the original poster "Historically, we were defensively oriented team whose offense was counter-attacked based and built around creating open space in our opponent's half for our best attacking players (LD and CD). Our defense was reliant upon a constant focus on maintaining defensive structure buttressed by elite athletes (who may be relatively unskilled), excellent goalkeepers and the highest level of grit/determination." because that's what he had available. People started dreaming of a different style and he was replaced. USMNT players are more comfortable playing in the USA, therefore MLS should lead the evolution of identity and style. Whatever style MLS uses should be the style of the USMNT if the majority of the players come from MLS. MLS identity=USMNT identity. If the USMNT want to play like Brasil then all the players must play in Brasil. This reminds me of a rant a few years ago by some that the Brasil NT was losing it's identity because most of the players were in European clubs and played differently.
I think we should stay the course. There going to be bumps along the way, but we need to move away from what Bora implemented over 20 years so that we wouldn’t be embarrassed on home soil. Our players have evolved and our depth increased significantly. We need to continue to focus on getting better soccer players in every position. We need defenders who are comfortable on the ball and prefer playing out of the back. We need players that are flexible and can play more than one position with a very defined role. The 16-22 year old range has a lot of players with high potential. Of course, some will disappear, some will have injuries end their career, but one or two difference makers to go with Pulisic and handful of others to fill out the lineup and things start falling into place. This approach is what we’ll need if we are ever going to compete against top international sides and also what is needed to unlock bunkering concacaf sides.
The three countries with the biggest influence on soccer culture in the US are Germany, England, and Mexico. We should strive to take the best of what works from all three and mold it to our talent pool. I want players who can win either by out-athleting the other team or playing an attractive, possession-based style and coaches who are tactically savvy to know which of those methods to lean more heavily towards against a given opponent. I also never, ever want to see an American team quit again. We need to bring back the heart that those teams in the 90s and 00s had.
He was a moderately trained soccer player until one day he shot himself in the foot. When he woke up, he couldn't remember who he was or how he got there. Or how to hustle. Now he's on a big green field and is apparently supposed to do something with his feet. But what--and why are the fans crying? "The USMNT Identity." In tournaments no time soon.
You are glossing over two very important facts: 1) Our vaunted counter attack was almost entirely based on a speedster/3-lunged creature named Landon Donovan who directly accounted for 1 out of every 3 goals scored by the squad during his tenure. 2) You can't counter a disciplined and tactically sound team. How will we counter when our opponents are sitting back waiting to counter us? The CONCACAF opponents have become more disciplined and tactically sound. The island opponents are not only doing the old US contain and counter but they are even more athletic and faster as a squad than we ever were. We need to evolve and grow the program in the direction of the skilled possession teams or we will eaten by the evolving CONCACAF squads.
HHF, Both are fair points. So, if we are facing more athletic and faster squads (which I don't agree with - we have plenty of great athletes who run hard/fast/tirelessly) who are getting more disciplined/tactically sound, the answer is to play aggressive/attacking soccer? That's a recipe for disaster IMO and therefore, it becomes even more important to make sure we're defensively sound. The Caribbean teams were alway fast and athletic - off the top of my head, I remember several battles vs. Jamaica where their speed, height and athleticism was through the roof. Don't get me wrong - I want elite athletes who are also highly skilled. But if faced with a choice when playing top 20 teams between (a) matching/exceeding athleticism while acknowledging a skill deficit or (b) playing our best skill players who aren't highly skilled relative to Mexico, let alone the truly elite and aren't athletic, I'll take (a) all day long.
Playing a proactive possession style does not meen you are not defensively sound. Check out the numbers, Klinsmann's teams were always defensively sound as evidenced by their GA. It just means you defend higher up the pitch. Play out the scenarios where we contain and counter with disciplined low block defending against Jamaica/Trinidad/Panama who are also looking to contain and counter with disciplined low block defending. Best case it is a coin flip with the edge going to the team with the faster/better breakout finishers We do not want to be in coin flip matches with the middle teams in CONCACAF. We need to be challenging Mexico for the top spot.
I’m with Hugo! https://www.socceramerica.com/publi...ez-its-time-for-the-usa-to-embrace-creat.html HUGO PEREZ: We need to start entertaining people. I’m personally tired of watching our players play a conservative, scared type of soccer. We need to be getting people in the stands applauding because our players’ style of playing is creative -- total football. To be able to dominate with the ball. I still think our country is below those standards.
Pretty low expectations... I also think many knew how horrible we were playing. Not surprised some old timers would enjoy the type of performances and results we had 25 years ago.
No, qualifying is high expectations. Look where we are now. Its about results. Just like the WC final match (at least the past few) ugly ball in order to win. Last cycle, Mexico played beautiful soccer (compared to us this time around) and nearly missed out so Hugo's beautiful doesn't guarantee results.
The USMNT identity is currently being created in the U-17 WC. These 'kids' are everything the current USMNT is not. They are aggressive, they run at opponents, they are creative, highly skilled and athletic...and they have heart. They play England in the quarter finals. Check 'em out: U-17 MNT vs England October 21, 2017 10:30 AM ET FS2, Telemundo
Qualifying is such a low bar. That’s why it has been so long since it hasn’t happened and it took a coach seemingly trying to not qualify and it still should have been. Playing attractive soccer and results aren’t mutually exclusive and playing having players that can and having them play attractive soccer doesn’t mean that tactics can’t be changed for an important game here or there. At least you and your buddies have the satisfaction that we got rid of Klinsmann. Boy was that a good decision.