I really hadn't considered the NASL a credible threat to the MLS but I suppose its possible. I much prefer the NASL's approach of letting owners control their team rather than the commissioner like the MLS does. Competition between the two leagues could be good for American soccer in general. The NASL is present in several large markets nowhere near MLS clubs (Atlanta, Carolina, FTL, Tampa, Minny). Expansion into NY, Ottawa, Indy, and maybe San Diego will only further that growth. Once the league shows signs of growth, it can attract deep pocketed investors that can really make it take off. Some sort of merger a la AFL-NFL or ABA-NBA would be the ultimate goal. A 30 team first division wouldn't be out of the question considering how large America is. Whoever is left, would make up the 2nd division.
From a recent Eric Stover Twitter Q&A posted on the Cosmos website & NASL.com: "We are completely focused on being successful in the NASL. We are already seeing the NASL growing rapidly with new investors and new clubs. Further, we expect to field a team that will feature comparable talent as MLS franchises in a few short years." I am guessing there have been some behind the scenes discussions among the various clubs about future possibilities for this league.
The commissioner doesn't control anything in MLS. He is hired by the Board of Governors. You know who the BoG are? The MLS owners. The club owners control the league. Oh no it wouldn't. It would be the exact opposite. Not at this stage when everything is still so fragile. All it would mean is the NASL's quick death and a very minor nuisance for MLS, whose real focus is the other U.S. sports leagues, as well as the EPL, Liga MX etc. Why do soccer fans here love shooting themselves in the foot? And you have to realize that in those markets, the NASL is perceived as a minor league. And the money needed to change that is likely beyond those ownerships. The new Minny owner signing a bunch of D2 all-stars, who couldn't do anything in their time in MLS, doesn't exactly change that perception. There is a reason why those markets look to MLS. They want to be in the major league. And some of those markets will also fail. MLS went through some failures. So expect the NASL to see some. If anything, since the USL is handling player development now, the NASL might fill a niche as a developer of markets for MLS. Why wouldn't those deep pocketed investors just invest in the expanding D1 MLS? Where they stand a chance of losing less cash and being part of a major league with national attention(as limited as it is) and a TV contract. I feel like a broken record having to keep repeating this. Mergers only happen when two leagues are equal and have something to offer each other. The NASL has nothing to offer MLS. Not now. Not ever. As long as MLS is expanding, the best emerging markets are going there. So you have nothing to offer MLS. In the case of the AFL, it was formed when the NFL denied franchises to very rich people. In the case of the ABA, it was actually created to fail, but to force a merger. The NBA had stopped expanding. Neither of those cases exist in MLS which is actively expanding and looking for owners. Does anyone remember the USFL, XFL, UFL, WHA, ect? All those leagues failed trying to compete with bigger leagues. Yes, MLS might go to 30 teams or beyond. Maybe then there is MLS2.
Be very careful buying anything that comes out of the Cosmos mouth. They are trying to play hardball with MLS. I remember reading that Stover Q&A from a few weeks back. I don't think they are that organized. Nor do I think they are that stupid. Do I think there are wackos associated with the NASL who believe they can challenge MLS? Sure. There are always crazies who don't consider the economics of various endeavors. Maybe David Downs got out of there just in time. BTW, go google Francisco Marcos and the USL. Even as late as a few years ago he thought the USL-1 could rival MLS because they had the better system as oppose to MLS's single entity. We know how that turned out.
Here's another interesting quote from an NASL front office member. This one is from a 2011 FIFA Mundial video. Tim Robbie of the Ft. Lauderdale Strikers talks about the possibility of NASL eventually moving up to Division 1 at around minute 6:00...
OK Jossed, I get it, you're a know it all. Instead of trying to understand what Boris meant when he thought that the NASL could compete with the MLS, we should all just defer to Jossed since he's been anointed expert on all things American Soccer. I was throwing out my own theories based off of what Boris said. Take it easy there wildcat.
No, I just know a lot more than you. Wow. Someone doesn't like their opinion challenged. Do you dispute anything I wrote about your post? Because that is the only thing that matters. Your hurt feelings don't. And I explained why your theories weren't possible. I never personally attacked you. I just challenged what you wrote. Things like that happen on message boards. If you are too sensitive for that tiger, than don't bother posting it so everyone can see.
From Mark Simpson of the Virginia Cavalry FC ownership group on the NASL: "Right now it's deemed as Division 2. But I think it becomes what we make it become." (Quoted from recent NY Times Goal Blog post on the team. Linked on NASL Facebook page.)
You hear this sort of thing from NASL and USLPro from time to time. Jossed has the right of it, but that doesn't mean that the lower leagues can't grow and prosper. I think there is a tendency for some folks to see MLS as "Evil Single-Entity," and therefore bad. And see USL and NASL as more capitalist, and therefore good. But beware. Single Entity is what keeps MLS alive and well. Whereas USL and maybe NASL have been less stable. (Hard to say with NASL, given their youth.) In any case, it's a big country. So there ought to be room for two or three sucessful, money making, fan drawing leagues. But it may take us a while to get there. - Mark
The problem with this logic is name one other sport in America that has two (or unbelievably three) competing leagues where both are 'succesful, money making, fan drawing leagues'. There aren't any, even for sports that people in general care about, let alone soccer which is and will be a niche sport for some time. About the only example I can think of is NASCAR and IRL but really they are two different sports when you get right down to it. So everyone can stop dreaming. MLS will be our first division from now on. The NASL can hopefully grow into a stable second division, but it is never going to overtake or be on equal footing with MLS.
Well using other American sports NASL is doomed to fail and end up as semipro or eventually going the way of USL and becoming a development league attached to MLS. Now niche sports can have competing leagues, at least until the point the sport stops being niche and one league kills off the others. (Indo soccer, Lacrosse)
I was never suggesting that NASL would be able to challenge MLS, and I don't want them too. I see MLS as inhabiting first tier cities: NYC, el-lay, Chicago, Houston, San José, Montreal, Vancouver, and so on. I expect NASL to live mostly in second tier cities, and USLPro to inhabit third tier cities. Now there are already some exceptions to this and some overlap, but in general, the bigger cities will go MLS and the smaller cities USLPro, and the cities in between to NASL. Minor league baseball does get support, they aren't failing. I can see the same with soccer, and we are getting more sponsors coming on board. What we need is better media coverage, and a way for fans to watch away games, or, for those of us who live in exile from our favorite team, any and all team games. Whether that's on TV, streaming on-line, or through some sort of Xbox-like arrangement I can't say. But we need to get more games broadcast in some form or other. And that's another revenue stream also. (For example, I pay for the MLS DirectKick package, and I'd pay for USLPro or NASL package if there was one.) Yeah, MLS is our first division, and that's not going to change. My hope is that NASL and USLPro become stable and don't go out of business. - Mark
More from the Commish in this excerpt from a Philly Soccer News article: While the league is officially sanctioned as second division by U.S. Soccer, the NASL is not positioning itself as a minor league, unlike the USL PRO, which has reached a working agreement with MLS. "We're comfortable with the designation," said Peterson. "And that's what it is, a designation from U.S. Soccer. We're comfortable with that designation. But that designation really doesn't limit us from being as good as we can possible be. We could have a stadium with 60,000 people in it and they can call us whatever they want, and we'll be ok with that. http://www.phillysoccernews.com/leagues/nasl2.php?article_id=9880
We keep hearing this sort of thing from both USLPro and NASL. They might be better served saying something like: "Every soccer country has a second and third division, sometimes a fourth and fifth division. Many of these leagues play high quality soccer and produce great players. We aim to be the best league we can be, and to present world class soccer to our fans." What I'm reaching for here, is a way to change the terminology from "minor league" to second (or third) division. Minor league has such negative connotations here in the states that it's going to take some effort to persuade people that the product is worth watching. Maybe: "We aren't minor league in the sense of being a developmental league, or our teams being owned by the first division teams. We are a fully independent league, we sign players from the USA and other countries as well, and we play a high level of fútbol." Something like that. This statement, it just reeks of: "We can too be good." And a little foot stamping. It sound almost petulant. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it. - Mark
If anything else, burgeoning competition between MLS and the NASL in coming years should raise the profile of the US Open Cup. (Which is long over due.) I like Wynalda's Open Cup ambitions for ASFC this year. Should be exciting.
While true, i think NASL if properly organized and sustained as a viable soccer division does have much to offer MLS in the case of a possible merger years from now. Namely, MLS expansion currently has moved away from the iscolated start up in new markets and instead focused on expanding into soccer markets where there is already an established team, fanbase, history and infrastructure not to mention community good will and politically good climates. Philadelphia is the only MLS expansion team in the last six years that was awarded and built from stratch without any overlap between an existing franchise in market. Seattle, Portland, Montreal, Vancouver and even San Jose all were awarded MLS franchises on the backs of long time support in market for another local team. I believe MLS brass has taken the approach that future expansion into new markets will bare more fruits when its essentially a promotion rather than a start up. If you are MLS there is value at some point in getting into new markets where there is no direct market competition. Why expand to Atlanta for example (not saying its likely now) and create a new team to compete with Silverbacks? What good does that do MLS and soccer in the US in general if they try to cut off their noses to spite their face? I think MLS wants NASL and even USL Pro to raise the floor of soccer in this country. It means grooming better domestic talent, increasing support of the pro game in the US which naturally will only benefit MLS long term. I think MLS is set on getting to 20 team then taking pause to evaluate what their next step is, assuming NASL can get into 14+ non-MLS markets and several of those teams have local ownership and relative success. Why would it not be in MLS's favor to negotiate a mass expansion/merger there is a benefit to MLS because they get 10 or so franchises ready to plug and play (amusing they can all meet certain requirements for stadiums/financial power). Or perhaps the form a integrated division with pro/rel? (disclosure i am not a pro/rel supporter nor think its realistic absent some type of merger and revenue sharing amounts between divisions). The scenario above isn't a perfect analogy to AFL-NFL which was a situation where there was much more notable conflict between the leagues, but one of the merger factors was the benefit to NFL of bringing in 8 established franchises in new markets. Clearly this is a different sport in a different time with different factors at play.
^ People have already said that the NASL will become a development league. But one that develops markets instead of players. It totally depends on the market. If Arthur Blank started a MLS team, the Silverbacks would be a non-factor. The idea that Mr. Blank would have to buy the Silverbacks and "promote" them to be successful in that market doesn't hold water. Because the Silverbacks don't really have any major presence(fanbase, history, media coverage, community) in the market. They are not the Sounders or Timbers. Different situation. I think pausing at #20 went out the window. Now that we hear Orlando has big money backers. I am not sure why you think MLS needs the NASL to expand. Unless the NASL can lock teams into their league, their ownership groups can freely leave for MLS. Teams want to be in MLS. There is nothing to negotiate. It would be more like the NHL/WHA merger, which wasn't really a merger. Once the WHA was finished, the NHL took the WHA teams it wanted and left the rest to die. Which you can say is happening now. MLS takes the markets it wants.
I don't think MLS needs NASL to expand, but i do think the NASL provides a platform to not only develop underrepresented soccer markets ripe for MLS to expand, but to also provide an overall benefit to the US soccer pyramid in general. This all presupposes that NASL and MLS share the same long term vision with respect to what soccer in america will look like down the line. AT this time i don't see them as having direct competition or a hostile relationship. I think there could be some great benefits to both leagues as this goes forward, and given the goals of the USSF for soccer overall in this country, i just don't see MLS going into NASL markets right now and trying to undermine a developing second division.