What's a better way to give Europe 2 CWC berths without including runnerup or EL?

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by It's called FOOTBALL, Dec 18, 2017.

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Which of these options are best to determine 2 UEFA berths at the World Club Cup?

  1. Split the UCL into North UCL and South UCL. 27 northernmost nations make up the North UCL.

    100.0%
  2. Split the UCL into East UCL and West UCL. 27 westernmost nations make up the West UCL.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Have the current setup, but make the current semis into 2 Finals. R16 would be 2 sets of QFs, etc.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. It's called FOOTBALL

    LMX Clubs
    Mexico
    May 4, 2009
    Chitown
    UCL runnerup or EL champ is 100% out of the question. We can't have a rematch at the CWC or a 2nd tier champ. Those 2 ideas are foolish and ridiculous.

    So what's left is North/South, East/West, or current setup that changes the semis to 2 Finals. Please choose. Thank you.


    The 2 Euro teams can get the bye to the CWC semis, or we can have a coinflip to see which one gets the bye, while the other starts at the quarterfinals. Or determine the bye based on points, whichever.
     
  2. unclesox

    unclesox BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 8, 2003
    209, California
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    If the UCL winner fails to win their domestic league, invite that domestic league champion.

    If the UCL winner achieves the league and UEFA double then... heck, I don't know. :)
     
  3. dinamo_zagreb

    dinamo_zagreb Member+

    Jun 27, 2010
    San Jose, CA / Zagreb, Croatia
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Semifinalist that was eliminated by runner-up. Avoids any UCL knock-out phase match replay, avoids "two UCL finals" in the same year. :p

    Jeez, there are so many opponents of this proposed UCL-CWC format. Awesome there's so many of us!
     
  4. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's easier said than done to make a northern 27 and southern 27 countries and an eastern 27 and western 27 countries. I'd expect some clubs in the northern 27 countries to be south of some clubs in the southern 27 countries and the same to be true for any two opposite directions. Western Europe has better clubs than eastern Europe. Western Europe would have England, Spain, Portugal, and France. I don't know about Germany and Italy, but Juventus and Milan clubs are in western Italy.
     
  5. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    lol The options in the poll are odd to say the least. What does "turn the semis into 2 finals" even mean? Splitting a final into two matches is literally what "semifinal" means.

    First and foremost a European champion still needs to be crowned each season. That fundamental principle seems to be lost on @It's called FOOTBALL . That dude needs to hook me up with whatever he is smoking!
     
  6. Thezzaruz

    Thezzaruz Member+

    Jun 20, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Sweden
    The only ridiculous idea here is that you should mess up the CL only to determine who plays in the CWC (especially as the CWC likely won't be played annually in the future).
     
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  7. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hold it in an European country, more specifically a country of the top 5 leagues.
     
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  8. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Would you like Barcelona to win a Final over Bayern Munich and have Bayern Munich's fans complain that they lost because the game was in Spain (or vice versa)?
     
  9. It's called FOOTBALL

    LMX Clubs
    Mexico
    May 4, 2009
    Chitown
    #9 It's called FOOTBALL, Dec 22, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2017
    I said specifically, 2 UCL Finals. Either for North/South, East/West, or UCL1/UCL2.

    LMAO, this is exactly what I've been arguing towards you for years, you're the one who wanted UCL rematches in the CWC, or have teams wait 2 years to play, which takes psychedelics to dream up of that!

    Anyway, a Euro champ would still be crowned, just in a different way this time. As a world champ, or 3rd place, or team who went farthest.

    I just felt bad for Europe this year, since such a supposedly strong confederation only gets one berth. Poor guys.
    It will still be annually, the quadrennial idea will be shot down, and deservedly so.

    Ok, so no one wants UEFA to have 2 CWC berths. Be prepared to hear more Euros complaining every year, as they have since the start. This was a solution to calm their complaints and have a more competitive Final. Without a rematch or 2nd tier inclusion.
     
  10. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    umm...ok, so you want to ruin the CL.

    I never argued for that. The CWC could disappear in a puff of smoke and I'd be totally fine with that. I was merely pointing-out that if the CWC was held every two years, UCL winners would only have to wait one year (not 2) until they play in the CWC.


    meh, I don't think they're bothered. The fewer the better is what they're thinking.
     
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  11. It's called FOOTBALL

    LMX Clubs
    Mexico
    May 4, 2009
    Chitown
    I don't think it'd be ruined. You'd still get great matchups.

    The N/S solution would help England tremendously, and you know how they insist on the quality of their league.

    E/W would pretty much be the same as now, except now Besiktas or Locomotiv can get CWC action. Not bad.

    UL1/UL2 solution could produce a Barca-Madrid CWC Final, which would be great.

    It behooves FIFA to split the UCL, it overshadows the CWC too much, that must stop. If conference disparity continued in the NBA or Gridiron, which used to be the case, best believe those leagues would have put the kibosh on it.
    So you're cool with Chilean clubs never getting a shot at being World Champs.
     
  12. themanlarry

    themanlarry Member+

    Nov 14, 2005
    I don't know if you understand that from an UEFA perspective the CWC has never been a priority or of interest to anyone in any significant way? There is no need to split the UCL into two groups nor need to make any changes at all. The general consensus (correct me if I am wrong please) is that CWC is a silly tournament that you fly to Japan, Brazil, Morocco, UAE or wherever it is hosted and play two matches then fly home. By far the most important priorities for these clubs are their league, the Champions League and domestic cup - they definitely don't start a season by saying "lads our long term goal is to win the CWC, so let's qualify for the Champions League this season".

    I respect your enthusiasm for this tournament. Do you see winning Copa America, Euro, or even the World Cup as a stepping stone for Confederations Cup glory?
     
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  13. jus2nang

    jus2nang Member

    Dec 12, 2005
    North London
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    That's actually not a bad shout.

    Splitting the UCL is a non starter for me, it'll just weaken the competition (which already has a few "meh" groups) as all the best teams are concentrated in 5 leagues anyway.
     
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  14. jus2nang

    jus2nang Member

    Dec 12, 2005
    North London
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    That can happen in the CL anyway - Bayern played Chelsea at home in 2012...... But lost :whistling:
     
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  15. unclesox

    unclesox BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 8, 2003
    209, California
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    There has been at least one exception to the UEFA perspective: Pep Guardiola.
    Before the 2009 final against Estudiantes he told his Barcelona players that they would become "eternal" in the eyes of club members if they could win the 'world championship' for the first time in the clubs' history. Pep played and lost the 1992 Intercontinental Cup to Sao Paulo and it clearly left an impression on him.
    Following the 2009 victory after extra-time Guardiola was an emotional wreck. Probably the most emotion he's ever displayed following a match as coach.



    As for comparing the Club World Cup to the Confederations, apples and oranges.
    Winning the CWC gives you the legitimate right to call yourself "world champion".
    What title do you gain by winning the Confederations Cup?
     
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  16. themanlarry

    themanlarry Member+

    Nov 14, 2005
    It was said in jest, I don't believe in it either but it was a hyperbolic/ridiculous statement aimed at the nonsensical garbage posted above in this thread. I do agree it is comparing apples and oranges but maybe it will add some clarity to the OP unless he/she also holds the Confed. Cup on a pedestal along with the CWC for whatever strange reason (and after the outlandish comments earlier it would not be too farfetched to imagine this possible). The idea of splitting the UCL into conferences for the benefit of qualifying for the CWC is the silliest thing I have read in decades.
     
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  17. Thezzaruz

    Thezzaruz Member+

    Jun 20, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Sweden
    Can't say that I've heard much of such complaints, if any at all, tbh. No one really cares about the CWC here, domestic leagues and cups and the CL or EL are all seen as much more important.
    Sure nowadays the teams that play in the CWC actually play to win, under the old systems/formats teams usually didn't care and sometimes they didn't even want to participate.


    So you actually do think the CL should be ruined, and to big up the CWC of all things. That's an interesting love affair you've got with the CWC.

    I don't think you'll see it happen anytime soon though. The "Super-league" stuff that comes up now and again isn't really serious, just a scare tactic in negotiations between UEFA and the clubs. But the clubs don't really want to split with UEFA, national teams still hold a lot of interest. However if FIFA ever tried to mess with the CL/EL then the idea would come back in a hurry but it wouldn't be the clubs leaving UEFA, it would be UEFA leaving FIFA. Too much money in the CL and European club football to allow FIFA to interrupt that.
     
  18. Thezzaruz

    Thezzaruz Member+

    Jun 20, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Sweden
    Bit simplistic to say that PEP values the CWC highly because of that moment, there where quite a few parts that made that specific edition a big thing.
    Firstly, they where there and thus why not take the chance when it exists. If they hadn't qualified he would have rued not winning the CL a lot more than he would have cared about not qualifying for the CWC.
    Secondly, it would be the first CWC win in the clubs history and first are always special (especially since both Real and Atletico had won multiple Intercontinental cups).
    And thirdly, and IMO most important. In 2009 they won the domestic league and cup double and the champions league. And then they won both the Spanish and European super cups. Adding the CWC would complete the clean sweep which, afaik, hadn't been done before.
     
  19. unclesox

    unclesox BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 8, 2003
    209, California
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    I agree with everything you say.
    But we can't ignore that it was after winning the CWC that he became the most emotional.
    He didn't cry after eliminating Chelsea on that last minute goal in the semi finals
    He didn't cry during the 2009 treble celebrations.
    He didn't cry two years later (2011) when his 2010 promise of regaining the European Cup was achieved at Wembley.
    The things you bring up probably helped build up the emotion that Pep released after beating Estudiantes. But the only other occasion I can recall seeing him get so emotional was during his press conference at Bayern the day after his Barcelona assistant Tito Viilnova had succumbed to cancer.

    1972 Ajax swept all trophies before them but there were 'only' five on offer at the time, the Dutch Super Cup being unavailable until nearly twenty years later.
     
  20. It's called FOOTBALL

    LMX Clubs
    Mexico
    May 4, 2009
    Chitown
    Check out various football forums and social media. Fans complain every year.
    It's not a ruination, and it's proper to big up the higher level at the miniscule expense of the lower level.

    How would it be ruined if you'd see mostly the same matchups anyway. Madrid can still take on PSG, Barca can still clash with Munchen. It'd literally be the same thing except now the last 2 Euro teams would have to face each other in the World Final, rather than in a World Quarterfinal, which is currently the case.
    It's a tough battle, but we can't allow UEFA to hold all the cards.
    That UEFA perspective is the reason this thread exists. If UEFA was significantly interested, there'd be no need for change.
    You see, this thread exists because too many Europeans see the CWC final stage as silly. We are trying to change that point of view.

    So if the last 2 Euro teams standing can only face each other in the CWC Final, that will drive up interest.

    The question is how can we get the last 2 European teams to the World Final, and there are your options. The question isn't whether Europe currently likes this tourney, we already know that it isn't popular in Europe. Your post is like saying water is wet when the thread is about how to conserve water.
     
  21. Thezzaruz

    Thezzaruz Member+

    Jun 20, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Sweden
    Funny, I don't think I've ever hear it. Might be someone out there that does but it certainly isn't a big issue for European fans.


    No, not really. At least nowhere near as much as you seem to want it too.


    Well there's your problem. The CWC isn't the "higher level" you think it is. And it would need a lot more than one added UEFA team (and presumably one extra CONMEBOL team too) to get there. Also what you are proposing wouldn't be a miniscule change for the CL.

    If you want the CWC to be the real top level of club football you'd need to make it a lot bigger and adding a lot more UEFA and CONMEBOL teams. Adding one (UEFA) or two (UEFA+CONMEBOL) teams would still just make it a short time/few matches tournament with 3 (or 4) good teams and 5 fairly crappy teams. The CL is a full season and 100+ matches with lots of good teams. The CWC can't match that any more than the Confed Cup can match the WC.

    The suggested expended CWC (24 teams was it) might have a chance to at least get some where close to being considered more prestigious than the CL but you already dismissed that idea so...


    But your options aren't the only options. Having both CL finalists or CL/EL winners go to the CWC is perfectly acceptable options. The fact that you've dismissed them out of hand doesn't make your argument stronger, it just makes it ridiculous.
     
  22. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is it only Europeans who feel that way? Do you think Real Madrid's fans in Europe care less about the CWC than Real Madrid's fans in other continents?
     
  23. fero

    fero Member

    Oct 31, 2011
    Argentina
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    PLAY IT IN EUROPE, Spain. Belgium, Netherlands have big stadium enpty when winter wreck in december and inmigrant population can really fill those; how big is the african or chinese comunity in Japan or UAE? the world cup must play in a full of inmigrants country like USA or Canada but decemer is not a good time on there.
    The belgium champion can have a lot of fun playing the final vs Real Madrid (again?) "at home"; the brasilian and argentinians can easily do a bigger party in Amsterdan that in far away Tokio; Benelux can show that they deserve host a Eurocup or the real World Cup.
     
  24. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think the weather in December is a problem in Florida, Texas, or southern California. It wouldn't be hard to pick two big stadiums within a few hours by bus of each other. If you want a club from outside UEFA to win the CWC, it would help a Mexican club to play in the southern United States.
     
  25. fero

    fero Member

    Oct 31, 2011
    Argentina
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    USA become NFL madness in december, being in the shadow of that in not nice publicity to FIFA or the CWC.
    In europe it can be a nice shine to whatever team or ligue that is not one of the big 5.
     

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