What Will FIFA's Response Be To Mexico's Anti-Homosexual Chant Be?

You spent a year in Mexico and the only meaning of pvto you heard is pejorative for homosexual (which is probably the least used)? You never heard it used in a friendly way (not that the chant does)? Are you sure you’re not confusing Mexico with New Mexico?

I’m not defending the chant, I’m against it (like many people), but that does not change the fact that it’s not homophobic. Regardless of the meaning it’s a swear word (that requieres knowing language nuances to understand) and the federation should have stoped it since the very beginning, especially when it spilled over to the national team. Ironically the criticism coming from the US probably reinforced the chant.

 

Maybe I am.

is Mexico city part of New Mexico ?

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On regards to the word, sometimes it is also used in other contexts, but the most common usage is meant to offend with it.

To the point, it really doesn't matter in which context it is being used (same as "huevon" for chileans).

If it offends a part of a community, simply stop using it, because it does.

 

Cannot use targeted deportation of Mexican fans, as suggested on previous posts.

Some fans travel with relatives. You will end up splitting them with harsh measures like deportation.

Short and clear punishment: your national anthem is not played at the start of the next game, if your fan base misbehaves.

Obviously, does not work for offenses committed during the Grand Final match.

 

As much as I agree with the fact that if there are rules, one has to follow them… and if FIFA has been saying that this needs to stop as it can be misinterpreted by people… then it's time to stop.

That being said people don't get it at all. Puto means "coward" with 0% in homophobic intent. I call friends putos, they call me puto, even a fucking dog that gets scared easily can be called puto. If you use it to address an actual gay man, then that's another story, but in Mexico only about 5% of the time a gay man would be slightly offended if he is called puto.

 

Again for clarification…

puto = coward (most of the time), "crap!"/"dammit!"
******** = "gay", used at the most 1% of the time to talk about a gay man and out of that 1%, 5% of the gay men would barely go like "relax bro/hey, c'mon!"

Some Mexicans don't keep using this word to challenge FIFA. It's because Mexicans know more than anyone else that it is not homophobic and most don't get why FIFA makes such a big deal out of not the meaning, but a misinterpretation and lack of understanding of how language works in Mexico.

 

Gotta love those percentages. Next time, we will be told that gays are NN% of the general population, thus we should worry about offending ppl just NN% of the time.

Mexican fans know what they are doing, clearly playing the *culture* card to get away with misbehavior.

Curiously enough, I do not recall such chant being used at the Mexico 1986 WC.

Too bad this is where we are now.

 

^^ and the complete lack of knowledge keep on going.

8-year-old say puto. Moms say puto. At the sunday family bbq kids say puto.

This is nothing but people forcing a meaning into a word that means nothing else. No one has the right to kidnap not a language but a dialect while not understanding it and telling them they don't know how to use their own dialect.
If it is an actual cultural thing… a legitimate cultural thing, it is what it is. You can call it an excuse and use the term "culture card"… but again if it is, in fact, a culture thing then what?

A typical family bbq in Mexico.




I agree that if FIFA doesn't want the chant because it can be misunderstood by foreigners (poster here are a clear example of that), then people need to adhere to this rule and stop doing the chant.

What I do not agree with is people hijacking a dialect from a culture you don't belong to and don't understand and telling them they are using their own dialect wrong.

 

This is precisely the point.
It shouldn't be homophobic to call someone gay if to be gay is not considered anything bad.
But when you use a word with an undisputable sexual connotation used towards men "also occasionally" meaning gay, and by using this word you mean "coward" - this is exactely what proves how homophobic the whole is.
Otherwise they would shout "coward".

Moreover there is another point: the Mexican fans used this word constantly also in Brazil 2014 (I saw it myself) as well as in Germany 2006 (this was the first time I heard it). And although Portuguese and Spanish are very similar, without an explanation by native speakers, a Brazilian will never come to the spanish meaning (in Brazil the word does exist, but it has other meanings). And after the WC, as stupid as it may be, Brazilians started using it in the same circumstances too - but with a word that has no other meaning as an relatively light offensive way for calling "gay". I'm sure the Brazilians didn't google to discover what the mexicans meant - they were told what they were really meaning. And it wasn't "coward".

Indeed if Mexicans use it, it's not because they want to challenge FIFA.
Nor it's because they think about being homophobic or not.
It's simply because it's fun to make inoffensive calls to someone that may insinuate that person to be gay. Even if they know he's not. They don't mean an insult (again: the word is "light offensive"). Ist just an innocent joke.
And this is precisely what has to be stopped. That it's fun to joke about sexuality. Or about any discriminated minorities.
As inoffensive as it may be, and as peacefull people who use it may be, by doing this they legitimate a feeling of many others that are neither inoffensive nor peaceful. And besides making the lifes of some young boys a hell, in many places in the world these guys also beat and kill these boys.
By the way, in Russia they do.

When we accept it or when we try to justify it, we're somehow conniving.

 

Look man, many of us speak Spanish/Castilian in this forum, so please quit the bull about "don't tell me how to speak *Mexican*". You know that such term can be offensive throughout the Americas.

Uruguayan Luis Suarez tried to use the same crappy defense after calling out Patrice Evra by his race during an English league match.

Suarez argued that it was normal in Uruguay to call black people by their race, without meaning any offense. Tough luck dude, you are not in Uruguay anymore, and we Latinos know how that stuff plays out abroad.

We are still backwards in several social aspects. Even in our mass media, we see how race/gender discrimination has been normalized.

If you want to chant silly nicknames that you share with relatives, then stay home. Not many people are interested on that stuff, which hardly qualifies as a nation's *culture*.

Seriously man, why defend a silly chant? And don't feel that Mexican fans are being singled out.

Chilean and Venezuelan fans have their silly chants too. Those will bring consequences as well.

 

Not everyone shares your sensibilities. Deal with it.

 

They already have, plenty of times.
During the last 3 years, Chile has received even more fines by FIFA than those that Mexico has had, over the issue. And not only when we play at home, but also when we play away.

We also received bans, without the possibility to use our most important stadium, during the past qualifiers, and up till now, we still are on FIFA's watch, if these things continue.
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The other issue, which is very unfair related to it (where we haven't been capable of doing anything about it), is that sometimes the ones using those chants (that we used before), are the fans of our opponents yelling it at us, and since they are not on the watch by FIFA, at FIFA they asume that the ones doing it, are once again, our fans instead, which at the end, means more fines for our Federation (instead of the ones of our opponents).
It's a drag, but we must accept it, as we started it.

 

Yeah, Uruguayan Valverde was sure dealt with at the U20 WC in South Korea.

Somehow, FIFA needed to deal with South Korean sensibilities, then.

 

Sure man, call me racist for recalling an incident where South Korean crowds booed and asked punishment for Valverde because of a *harmless* gesture.

Valverde quickly learned that stuff which works in Uruguay might not work in the world stage.

*Sensibilities* is a nice code word used to dismiss racial epithets. Glad we are on the same page, my fellow American.

 

This chant has been going on for what, 10, 15 years in the international scene? And absolutely nothing has happened in terms of really harsh penalties. Guess what's gonna happen now?...Exactly.

In fact, I bet you'll be able to hear it much much clearer in Mexico's following games than in the Germany one. That's futbol fans for you, tell them what they cannot do...

FIFA's reaction? Probably another fine.

 

FIFA needs to crack down on racist and homophobic chants the same way they deal with hooligans. Deport from the country and issue a life ban from WC's. Simple as that.

I don't see the problem in deporting racist/homophibic/hooligans fans (as long as Russia is on board with it). If they have family and friends they can leave together. Best way to stop this behaviour is to have a heavy hand. Can you imagine a Mexican fan getting a life ban and not being able to go to any game in the 2026!

 

10K is nothing, Fifa is giving a green light for Chants. Let's see how long a racist chant will take to grace the sound waves of Russian stadium

 

I have a lot of Mexican friends and am fluent in Spanish, I assure you when they yell pvto they're not thinking, "HOMOSEXUAL" it's more of a f*ck you if anything.

But we have a society that wants more rules, I agree to put a stop to demeaning behavior, but this is not one of tjem

 

I don´t see anything wrong with the mexican chant and it shouldn´t be punished.
PC taking another thing too far,all too familiar in those days.
See..I can be sympathetic towards Mexico as well.

 

I have zero problem with this chant. It isn't racist nor it's homophobic. Football stadium is not a library or a Opera House. Fans have the right to sing and be laud and use bad words. Racist/Homophobic/Hooligans should not be tolerated.

 

I had to log in to comment on this naive thinking: guys, FIFA just gave WC to two countries, where homosexuality is a criminal offence (Russia, Quatar) and you guys expect them to really do something about the chant? How naive...

In Russia you get prison term for being gay.

 

$10000 fine

In some Asian languages pvto just means sweet steamed bread

 

I’ve had a similar experience when talking with lgbt friends.

Put0 is really not that different from puta or bitch, but it’s just gramatically the masculine form of it not unlike pendejo/pendeja. The issue lies in the logical extension of the connotation of the word in certain contexts i.e calling a man a bitch or p8ssy especially if the man forms part of the lgbt minority class. “Eres un put0 mar1con” for instance is tinged with homophobia.

I think it’s vulgar and the chant should stop but this notion that it’s indicative of mass homophobia is a false one and that’s the kind of nonsense being peddled in this thread by folks like rickdog.