Post-match: What we learned from the Summer Series (Bol, Ire, Fra)

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Deadtigers, Jun 10, 2018.

  1. Susaeta

    Susaeta BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 3, 2009
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sort of, but they are still long shots. The closest are Sargent and Amon. I hear similar things from the staff at Werder Bremen on Sargent that we heard about McKennie last year. I think he will get a real shot next year. Jonathan Amon is a winger in Denmark who can beat defenders 1v1, but is still working on looking up and seeing teammates for combinations.

    Then you have some guys who have hit rough patches. Hyndman was injured at just the wrong times, and has not progressed in England. There are questions about Rubin’s injury recovery and fitness. He fades from games quickly, and has not consistently created chances.

    Finally in Europe you have some players who are considered 2nd or 3rd tier prospects, like Taitague, Wright, and Gaines. Not that one of them cannot come good, but you would not bet on it.

    Then you have the MLS kids, who are floundering. Kids like Carleton and Pomykal just are not getting the minutes and guidance they need to make the progress you want to see at this stage.
     
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  2. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    intermountain west
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Iceland should be our rally call. USSF needs more money? Wonder how much Iceland spends..

    Lots of english championship league level players. All athletic but play so smart they don't have to use it unless they're countering. Great D and goaltending and an offense that doesn't choke on their opportunities for the most part. Pressing, pestering defense on the ball and always in the key passing lanes. All 11 guys playing with their heads up. They were really fun to watch IMO.
     
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  3. Eighteen Alpha

    Eighteen Alpha Member+

    Aug 17, 2016
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    #53 Eighteen Alpha, Jun 16, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2018
    I agree with this. But I think people are forgetting Emerson Hyndman who, if he gets minutes in the EPL (or even lower) this year, will leapfrog many in the creative CM category.

    edit: I posted this before reading @cyberthoth 's post above. :oops:
     
  4. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Agree and would add that if we are building on a 532 situation, which makes some sense considering it's the Frances and Belgiums we need to get past, ultimately, then we need guys who can get out on the break and passers out of the back who can hit guys on the break. Wood has had a lot of chances and I don't see it longer term. Pulisic fits the bill, todate. Jozy not. I would like to see Adams moved out wider to allow him to get forward more instead of getting stuck at the 18 defending and sending bad passes forward to guys who cant make a break for it. That's why I"m interested in

    --------------Pulisic---Weah
    ----?----------Wes-----Delgado---Adams
    --------------------Trapp
    ------------Brooks--x------x

    Here you have good passing (bolded) across the back and players who are good on the break (italics). We would need to find somebody for lwb/rwb. Adams can play either side and up and down the touchline so we could change shape easily.
     
  5. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    fyi...us was lucky to draw honduras down there.
     
  6. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    fine lineup...if you are playing for a 0-0 draw.
     
  7. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    if emerson is that good...then he'll get a ton of minutes.

    if he doesn't get the minutes you may want to reevaluate his ability level.
     
  8. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Not if you have people who can hit on the break. If you play Wood and Green with Wes and Adams passing to them, then look for the draw, sure.
     
  9. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    well if you have three dmids in ur midfield...trapp, mckennie, adams and then delgado who is basically a 6 faking life as an 8...you aren't going to do a lot going forward....thats the lineup that was listed.
     
  10. Editor In Chimp

    Editor In Chimp Member+

    Sep 7, 2008
    It’s a bit different when you have a homogenous population the size of Milwaukee in a land mass the size of Ohio to have a ton of money spent on coaching and have everyone be on the same page.
     
  11. KALM

    KALM Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Boston/Providence
    Perhaps we should just spend a ton of money on coaching in Milwaukee, and then only call up players from there.
     
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  12. Editor In Chimp

    Editor In Chimp Member+

    Sep 7, 2008
    You kid, but there's merit in asset allocation. Instead of the Fed trying to cover the whole country, they should concentrate in major MSA's and let the MLS clubs handle the rest.
     
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  13. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    I can definitely see both sides. For much of our (modern, post-1989) history, our national team basically consisted of the all-stars of Southern California plus a foreign-raised player or two, plus a scattering of some other guys, usually from Northern New Jersey or Texas. That set got quite a bit of mileage.
     
  14. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    intermountain west
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know. They're actually about the size of Maine with Honolulu's population. Let's build a wall around Los Angeles and call it good?
     
  15. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Iceland has a giant advantage to go along with their, oft quoted, small population. They can play anywhere in Europe with no restrictions and can do so from 16 on. All the EU countries have a huge advantage over everyone else.
     
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  16. wrench

    wrench Member+

    May 12, 2007
    NYC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC

    You still have to be good enough to be considered.
     
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  17. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I'm not sure what you mean. Was Josh Sargent good enough to be picked up by a German or English team at 16? 17? He certainly was, but he will not be allowed to play in a competitive match until he is 18 1/2. If he was Icelandic, he would have probably a year or more of professional minutes at some level already.

    Sigurdsson was at Reading at 16. No matter how good an American is, he couldn't do that unless his grandfather has a Croatian passport or something maybe 1 in 20 Americans have.

    The USSF seems to have drawn zero lessons from Iceland's coaching initiative, which is something to draw lessons from. But you couldn't replicate that in Corpus Cristie and get the same results because the Icelandic kids move to top European clubs at 16 while the Americans would have to stay here until 18, 19, or even 22 (if they sign with MLS when they are 17).

    What Sigurdsson got at Reading from 16-18 (or Pulisic got at Dortmund 16-18) is what we need to get the thousands of Americans without a EU passport here. Germany aside, you are seeing a pretty complete domination of the World Cup so far by UEFA. Same with the U20 tournament. What is happening at the ages of 16-18 in many European countries is unmatched. Our best players are coming out of the there too. NYRB (with European owners) and European clubs are responsible for developing:

    Pulisic
    McKennie
    Miazga
    Adams
    Antonee Robinson
    CCV
    Green
    Wood
    Sargent (maybe the least of all of these)
    Weah

    between the ages of 16-18. Those are just players that featured in these three games, but you can see the bulk of the starting 11 for the next 4-8 years there. Not saying RSL or KC or FCD isn't also developing players. I would take it as a good sign they are. But the 18-20 year old players developed by those clubs have yet to really stand out Internationally for the USMNT in these three games or at senior level in general. Hopefully, that changes soon (and throw Philly in the mix).
     
  18. wrench

    wrench Member+

    May 12, 2007
    NYC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I meant that wherever you are from, you still have to be good. I understand the EU passport advantage. The developmental academies in the states are our hope so that at 17/18, ala Sargent, you have a talent that can be seasoned. There is no doubt in my mind that we can and do develop good players. Can we do better, yes. With all the money here, we need to invest in youth development so it is a known commodity. If we are successful, EU clubs will come to us. IMHO.
     
  19. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We'd have won on aggregate even had we lost down there.
     
  20. Eighteen Alpha

    Eighteen Alpha Member+

    Aug 17, 2016
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    That is true as far as it goes, but, alone, doesn't account for Iceland's success. Iceland, a member of the European Economic Area - which allows them to participate in the EU's single market - is 22 in the most recent FIFA rankings. That is likely to go up a bit as FIFA transitions to ELO. Another EEA nation, Lichtenstein, is at 180.
    Now Iceland, with some 300K inhabitants, has ten times the population of Lichtenstein but Norway, an EEA nation of 5 million, is only at 53 in the FIFA rankings.
    My conclusion from all this is that population and early access to top European academies are much less important than the reforms Iceland has made in youth development.
     
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  21. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    just an fyi the way those home/away matchups work.

    had they won in honduras they would've played the match in the us very different.
     
  22. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ....Except for the fact that we did our obliterating of Honduras at home before we played them in Honduras...

    Perhaps Honduras plays the US differently on American soil in a 2-leg playoff. Then again, we probably play Honduras differently depending on how many we win by at home...
     
  23. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Possibly. Or it could be a golden generation. Time will tell.
     
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  24. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    People undervalue the importance of culture. Do you know what Tippeligaen means? It means the "betting league". Nobody cares about soccer in Norway besides old uncles who fil out their stupid betting cards. If you stretched out Norway's coast line (where the people live) it would stretch around the world 2.5 times. Somewhere in Canada right now, a 9 yr old kid is saying his prayers every night that God will freeze the pond early so he can get out there and play some hockey. Russia and USA, the two empires, never wanted their people to play soccer for political reasons - think BenHur chariot race.

    Iceland's problem is being connected with the rest of the world. Soccer is one way of being connected. Good for them.

    As in life, it's really about who wants it more. Which is why we are going nowhere before 2030. Right now USSF wants to live a weird deep state dream a la Sunil Gulati. Talk about deluded. With Sunil gone, the big, strong SEC football types have arrived to give us "once in a generation" athletes. This too must fail. In 2026 the marketing will be over the moon. We will be drowning in coca cola and big macs. When all the aforegoing has fallen on its face, we will get serious and do some damage in 2030. Natura saltum non facit.
     
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  25. Eighteen Alpha

    Eighteen Alpha Member+

    Aug 17, 2016
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    Damn good post.
     
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