What is the problem with Canada?

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by LouisianaViking07/09, Jun 11, 2016.

  1. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    #2101 Robert Borden, Mar 17, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019
    LouisianaViking07/09 repped this.
  2. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    CONGRATS to the Young Canuck,
     
  3. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    #2104 Robert Borden, Mar 24, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
    Canada is currently leading 3-1 after the 1st half. Goals from Hoillett, Cavallini and David.

    No Scott Arfield and no Alphonso Davies
     
    LouisianaViking07/09 repped this.
  4. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    so is David going to be Canada's all time top scorer? Only 19.
     
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  5. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    It looks like it, some are already starting to write that he might end up being as big as Davies if not bigger. Crazy how much under the radar he's been flying the entire time
     
  6. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Who, and how many goals is the record?
     
  7. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    plays in Belgium and current NT record is 22 goals.

    David for Canada
    4 goals and 3 assists in 4 games.

    it's the 19 year old striker.....born in the USA.:whistling:
     
  8. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, I was asking WHO holds the record at the moment. And yeah, Canada's record is going to fall pretty quickly with the guys they are starting to produce.
     
  9. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    my bad, record stands for Dwayne De Rosario.
     
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  10. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Who I expected. Thanks.
     
  11. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    LouisianaViking07/09 repped this.
  12. CANPRO

    CANPRO Member+

    Dec 23, 2002
    We really need CBs.

    I think our midfield and forwards can match up with anyone in Concacaf. Our young fullbacks are probably even decent enough now, but boy do we ever need some CBs to emerge and quick.
     
    LouisianaViking07/09 repped this.
  13. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Still hoping for Ricardo Ferreira to commit and some hidden gems CPL might uncover
     
  14. CANPRO

    CANPRO Member+

    Dec 23, 2002
    Or for our young CB to get some games in Dallas.
     
  15. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Projected to be a great CB, any chances he gets loaned?
     
  16. CANPRO

    CANPRO Member+

    Dec 23, 2002
    Signing late didn't help.
     
  17. CanadaManUfan

    CanadaManUfan New Member

    Manchester United
    Canada
    Feb 22, 2019
    There’s always a hope that Tomori will play for Canada?? He’s solid in the Championship Division in England
     
  18. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    #2119 Robert Borden, Mar 25, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
    The pair of Ferreira and Tomori committing to Canada would give us a very strong defense and put everyone in the right chair.

    CB depth
    1 (Elite)
    Ricardo Ferreira (Braga, Portugal)
    Tomori (Derby County, loaned from Chelsea)

    2 (Current starters, would be push back as subs)
    James (Midtjylland, Denmark)
    Derek Cornelius (Vancouver Whitecaps)
    Doneil Henry (Vancouver Whitecaps)

    3(Experienced, veterans)
    David Edgar
    Steven Vitoria (Lechia Gdansk-Poland)
    Jakovic (LAFC)

    4(Up and coming)
    Kosovar Sadiki (Hibernian Reserves, Scotland) Kamal Miller (Orlando City)
    Callum Montgomery (FC Dallas)
    Skylar Thomas (Forge, CPL)
    Lucas Gasparotto (York 9, CPL)

    At RB, we're good with
    Marcus Godhino (Hearts)
    Zachary Brault-Guillard (Montreal, loaned from Lyon) Juan Cordova (Huachipato, Chile)
    CPL will be bringing on depth from the likes of
    Kadin Chung (Pacific)
    Diego Gutierrez (Valour, just signed from Palestino, Chile)

    At LB, it's Samuel Adekudbe (Valarenga, Norway) to lose
    Marcel De Jong (Pacific)
    But we might get in trouble if both are injured.
    Both Alphonso Davies and Mark-Anthony Kaye can play LB.
    The depth will also be coming from CPL

    We're very deep at midfield with the arrival of
    • DM Stephen Eustaquio (Cruz Azul) who will replace Hutchinson who played is last game last night.
    • Samuel Piette (Montreal Impact) is right behind him an obvious starter
    • Scott Arfield (Rangers) is our general at midfield and captain.
    • Jonathan Osorio (TFC)
    • Mark-Anthony Kaye (LAFC-impressed the hell out of me)
    • David Wotherspoon (St.Johnstone)
    • Junior Hoilett (Cardiff City)
    • Alphonso Davies (Bayern Munich)
    • Liam Millar (Kilmarnock, on loan from Liverpool)
    • Ballou Tabla (Albacete, loaned from Barcelona)
    • CPL will add further depth with Kyle Bekker & Tristan Borges (Forge)
    Strikers
    Lucas Cavallini (Puebla)
    Jonathan David (Gent)
    Cyle Larin (Besiktas) is now a backup.
    Liam Millar is also capable to play at this position
    Akindele (FC Dallas) & Ricketts (Suduva, Lithuania) are distant depth Strikers
    Marcus Haber (Pacific) could climb the ladder

    Keeper
    Milan Borjan (Belgrade) is unmistakably our #1
    Crepeau (Vancouver) & Jason Leutwiler (Blackburn, Championship) are #2
    Up and coming Alessandro Busti (Juventus U23) might be the future.
    Quillan Roberts (Forge) will be one to watch
    Dayne St.Clair (Minnesota) will also be one to watch

    This team is an Hex team even without Tomori and Ferreira. With them, it's a top 5 CONCACAF team.
     
  19. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Really? From what I saw against Guyana, Canada's got two "good" mids.

    Hutchinson, who's there just for exp. He makes Michael Bradley look young, and he'll most-likely retire after the GC. At 36, gotta think there's not too many miles left on those legs.

    Osorio is decent, and finally had a very productive year on a bad TFC team. But he's not at the level of the top CONCACAF midfielders for CR, USA, and Mexico, who mostly ply their trade in Europe.

    Piette and Adekugbe aren't anything special at all. Chapman and Fraser are nothing yet. Tabla might come good if he gets minutes at 2nd division Spain, but really he's like Konrad de la Fuente at this point (a Barcelona academy player). Tiebert has been a Vancouver sometimes-starter for his whole career. All in all, that's a poor 3rd midfielder and bad depth.

    Attack? Set up well. Lots of young talent, with Larin maybe pushed out of the XI if everyone's healthy.
     
  20. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    #2121 Robert Borden, Mar 25, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
    He's saying in general.
    • Eustaquio is hurt, a clear upgrade on Piette and replacing Hutchinson most likely for league of nations.
    • Arfield didn't play, one of the best in the region
    • Kaye was put out of position, has been really impressive lately

    Yet he's still dominant at Besiktas and started most if not all the games so far. The team is 3rd and in the Europa zone within reach of Champions League qualifiers. But yes, he's retiring after the Gold Cup.

    Stephen Eustaquio will most likely be his designated replacement ahead of Samuel Piette once he's healthy. He'll bring valuable experience playing all over Mexico from Azteca with Cruz Azul, much needed for the Canadian squad needing results in CONCACAF. Oh and teams like Barca and Manchester City were interested in him when he was at Chaves in Portugal.

    Yeah, let's forget that he was the CCL MVP the prior year which was also his breakout year. He had clubs interested in him from Europe and South America with a Colombian club requested a loan which was turned down by TFC.

    I would agree that his decision to just resign with TFC (by choice, not because he couldn't play elsewhere) was not the best one in my opinion.

    Unless I'm mistaken, aren't there US players from MLS squads on the USMNT? He's just as good if not better than some of them, let's be real here.

    So are you saying MLS isn't that great of a level and that those playing in National teams from that league are instant weakest links? Some consistancy would be appreciated in these parts cause that league is a world class top league in one argument but on the other hand, mediocre because a Canadian midfielder plays in it and is selected...
    :thumbsup: ok...

    Adekudbe is LB, not midfield and a regular starter in Norway. Piette, outside of yesterday's mistake, has been a beast at DM. Remi Garde, his manager said that he should be a starter in Europe. But maybe you'll think he doesn't know what he's talking about...you must have a better eye for talent than he does... MLS.com should refrain from writing about him then as a rising star ;)

    I also believe that he should have stayed in Spain where La Liga clubs and other Euro clubs wanted to sign him instead of coming home. Maybe our nations have both the same problem on that angle.

    Those 2 aren't on anyone's starting XI, not even subs. You'd need devastating injuries upon injuries for that to happen or playing nations not worth calling back the top guys.

    We have better options.

    Liam Millar is ahead. Same age but scored for Kilmarnock, was dominant at 18 for Canada youth and senior and impressed at Liverpool. Tabla isn't even my 2nd choice. That's Millar after Hoilett or Davies.

    Tiebert is maybe #3 behind Eustaquio/Hutchinson and Piette. There's no way he starts but he's young enough to improve but others are coming that might take his spot.

    With Cavallini and David with Millar who's also a striker, then Larin, we're right up there in the region.

    This isn't to convince you of anything since you're analysis of the whole Canadian team is based on 1 game against French Guiana. (Imagine if I did that after the loss against Trinidad?)

    That wasn't Canada's A team. I'm deconstructing your post for the benefits of others.
     
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  21. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #2122 gunnerfan7, Mar 25, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
    Eustaquio is Hutchinson's replacement. Forgot about him in Portugal. That takes your best, most-experienced MF and replaces him with an injured, young LigaNOS (now LMX, but hasn't played yet) player. A slight upgrade there I'd say.

    Arfield's not "one of the best in the region". Not when Christian Pulisic, Tyler Adams, Weston McKennie, Diego Lainez, and Rodolfo Pizzaro, exist. That's not counting the older guys like Guardado and Borges. I think he'd be in the XI of most teams, but "one of the best in the region" better mean top 15-20 if we're talking midfielders.

    Ho boy, Man City and Chelsea have actually purchased American players, and as we see, it doesn't usually mean much on the top teams. Eustaquio would most likely get loaned out, or never make it, just like how Tabla isn't starting at Barca. But he's young and has European experience, which is why I'd put him as an upgrade to Hutchinson, who, regardless how much you talk up Besiktas, is still 36 and retiring soon.
    No, the "year prior" was actually the 2018 CCL where he was tied with Giovinco with 4 goals. That was also his breakout 2018 club season. It certainly wasn't during his 2017 club season, where he started 9 games and had a fraction of the production. Come on now.
    https://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/colombian-club-waits-hear-tfc-osorio-loan-request/
    2018, aka last year.
    I am saying it's not that great. Because it's not. US players from MLS are generally less-talented than their European talents. It's why people were excited for the Adams/McKennie/Pulisic trio rather than seeing Wil Trapp again. And it's why the current consternation revolves around GB possibly building the team around Wil Trapp, who's a pretty good MLS player only.

    Kenny Saief has gone from Anderlecht's bench to the starting XI of FCC, and is clearly one of, if not the, best players on the team. It's likely that Gedion Zelalem is going to get some MLS minutes for SKC, despite only getting to Arsenal's U23's. It's not an awful place for young players (as we've seen with Davies and Adams), but once you get to 23-25-ish, you're not going to keep growing. Osorio's almost 27, and unlikely to keep growing as long as he stays in MLS.

    Wake me up when Piette plays in Europe, please. Wil Trapp got offers there too, and because they aren't actually there, you can't pretend that they are. Piette's a slow DM with a limited passing range who got beat off the dribble multiple times, one of which resulted in him just hauling down the Guyanan player as a tactical foul.
    Maybe. He could have ended up like Matthew Olusunde, Keaton Parks, or Shaq Moore. Going to Europe is risky. It's why "making it" over there is often such a big deal. Particularly if it's somewhere like the Low Countries, with a lot of competition from young talent. It's why David's so great at 19.

    OK, domestic roster-filler, sure. Good to know.
    Makes sense. Hoilett started, but maybe Davies pushes Tabla to the bench by pushing Hoilett to one of the FB spots. I guess Millar, SPL loanee, is starting in the other one. That sure doesn't inspire me with confidence, but as an American fan I feel the pain of not having a good set of FB's.

    At 26, he's not likely to improve much in MLS. Then again, you think that a failed 30 year-old SPL striker in Herber is going to "climb the ladder" in your strongest position group in the CPL, so this is probably just you being optimistic again

    He's on loan as an FB. That's likely where he'll stay. Brooks Lennon was also a Liverpool youth player, and moved to FB.
    No, that's maybe the dumbest thing you've posted considering I've argued with you for going on two years just in this thread. You may have more knowledge of the CANMNT, but you're also perpetually looking through rose-colored glasses.
     
  22. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    It feels like Canadian fans everywhere are in an unreasonably optimistic place.

    I've stopped getting annoyed by it. Let the results happen; they'll be back to their normal cynical level soon.

    If a CPL team wins the Concacaf League though, it's going to be miserable.
     
  23. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Eustaquio is hurt but he's projected to be back by Nations League. Players gets hurt, it happens. What matters is that he comes back healthy and at the same level. It's an excellent replacement to Hutchinson at DM.

    Arfield...a starter in EPL at Burnley who they wanted to keep and other clubs wanted to signed but choose to sign with Rangers which provide more Continental competition opportunities.

    There's nothing wrong getting your facts before downplaying players accomplishments.

    Perhaps he would have been loaned but he was excellent in Portugal and he's young. Cruz Azul is a good fit for all parties. He'll be facing the best competition in this region and bring that experience to the team.

    I'm truly curious on how you're ranking those leagues in your mind because both Turkey and Portugal are high level leagues where both started and excelled, so you downplaying the whole thing is a bit odd.

    I stand corrected, he was MVP of CCL of 2018 and his breakout year was 2018. His accomplishment is nonetheless really good, enough to have gotten him back on the national team picture.

    Pardon me but I don't follow MLS regular season as much as I use to do.

    Noted.
    Osorio is the "NOW" choice for Gold Cup and Nations League, which is what we were talking about before you took it upon yourself on pouring negativity on the whole thing.

    Osorio progression will never be that steep at his age and we're talking about now, not WCQ or the future. No one's delusional to think that. Others will most likely take his spot by then.

    Well he was in Europe since like 12 or 13. He left Spain for MLS when Montreal noticed his dominance at DM. You're judging his whole game based on 1 bad game he had. I guess MLS analysts, the coach from France, the teams that were willing to sign him in Europe know nothing.

    Sure man, watch more of his game at Montreal and maybe we'll talk about Piette because right now, you're demonstrating you're perception of him based on 1 game, not fact or reality. Sorry but I'll stick with the experts on his evaluation

    That's why I said he should have stayed. And you do know he's 24 and grew up in the Euro system, he's not a product of North American soccer looking to make it in Europe. Very different here, in his case, I think he should go back.

    Again, you don't know the player, his overall game and his set of circumstances, yet I should be concerned about what you think of it. It's like me crapping on Trapp or others you brought up. At least I'm capable of admitting that I haven't seen them play enough to make such extensive judgments.

    Too soon to tell how Herdman uses the squad for the Gold Cup. I'll reserve judgment for then. So far, it worked for him with Millar coming in as a sub bringing added pressure.

    So far Herdman has been using variants of 3-5-2 taking advantage of the strength of the midfield and attack but that won't work against tougher teams.

    Hoilett is too valuable to be played out of position, that's not happening. Davies pushes Millar on the bench which makes it a major surprise if we see Tabla on the pitch unless he gets minutes at Albacete. He will use both Davies and Hoillet in each sides.

    Climbing the ladder doesn't mean he sees the pitch. That will depend on injuries and if the North American strikers see consistent time. Haber is younger than Ricketts so climbing the ladder is possible, doesn't mean he sees the pitch, let alone the bench. There's hope for Akindele to work his way back and it's up to Jackson-Hamel to prove he deserves to get back...

    Larin can barely get minutes now, let alone Haber. You're reading too much on what I'm writing.

    Who are we talking about here? Too soon to dismiss Millar, Liverpool and Klopp hold him in high regards but I wouldn't hate him reuniting with Gerrard at Rangers as their striker. At only 19, the ceiling his really high on this one.

    Btw, not because something happens to an American that means that it will always be automatically be the case for Canadians... you tend to do that.

    Yes, I obviously have way more knowledge than you for the CanMNT, but saying that this team can compete in CONCACAF is fact, not blidnful optimism.

    This squad is a CLEAR upgrade from the last one who we're short a point or 2 from the Hex. Point me to where I've said "CANADA IS WINNING THE GOLD CUP or CANADA IS WINNING CNL.

    Seriously man, any analysts points out to the improvement of the squad. This ain't just a "me thing". So, see you at the Gold Cup and hopefully in the same group at the CNL.
     
  24. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Unreasonable? With Davies, David, and the others?

    Every analysts say that there's reasons for optimism but hey, 2 guys with fictional names say that Canadians are unrealistic about their optimism....

    Wait for it...

    Based on results... (Last Gold Cup, Current CNL qualifiers, guys performing at club level)... sure whatever.

    CPL won't win CL this early, we might go trophy-less like current MLS has gone in CCL
     

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