What is the NASL business model? And how can it be improved?

Discussion in 'NASL' started by carnifex2005, May 22, 2010.

  1. carnifex2005

    carnifex2005 Member+

    Jul 1, 2008
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    As we've seen with the ongoing problems with NSC Minnesota, CP Baltimore and AC STL, I was wondering what is the business model for the NASL and how can it be improved?
     
  2. eclipse02

    eclipse02 Member

    Sep 20, 2009
    Hire someone who can stablize the NASL and even the USL leagues.

    Maybe the USSF is the best to control these leagues.
     
  3. argentumLingua

    Jun 17, 2009
    Montreal
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    What are the problems with the aforementioned teams? I haven't heard anything.
     
  4. WhiteStar Warriors

    Mar 25, 2007
    St.Pete/Krakow
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  5. 4door

    4door Member+

    Mar 7, 2006
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i am a small business owner/soccer fan. I do think about this issue with stability in US club soccer below MLS and here are a few concepts I would include into a new business model.


    1. form an agreement with NCAA allowing players to play on the same teams as professional athletes, but not officially be paid. The players might get a deferred payment not accessible until after they leave school, or maybe other forms of compensation like stock in the actual team. This would be a huge huge process, but if you want to make D2 work it needs to be done first.

    2. Form a 'super league' of all non MLS leagues, NASL, USL1, USL2, PDL, NPSL, PRSL, CSL, PCSL...even the top amateur clubs like here in Chicago RWB Adria or Dallas Roma. Bring in EVERYONE. When the MLS reserve league comes back, ask them to bring their clubs into these regional leagues.

    3. End this long travel nonsense. If D2 teams in scotland had to make regular season trips to Greece they would go bankrupt too. To go from n.west canada to PR is insane for many reasons. Create regional leagues like the US use to have in the early years. Pacific Coast league, California league, Rio Grand League, Midwest League, Northeast, Southeast, Caribbean, Eastern/Western Canada...lots of different regional leagues. Have these teams only play in their regional leagues in the regular season. Then take the champions of each of the regional leagues and have a playoff 'champions league' in which you would then name the winner. Cuts down on travel but still allows for a real north american champion.

    4. Petition Fifa for a CCL spot. Since MLS has a closed system to the 1st division you can argue that Fifa needs to reward a rival league a chance to go to the CCL or else MLS can hold the region hostage. And since MLS won't budget for pro/rel the easiest solution would be to just give another spot to NASL. This can be used to argue that NASL is a 'rival' league to MLS since they both have CCL spots. NASL can also challenge the MLS winner every pre season as a kinda 'North American Grand Champion' or something that can begin that rebranding of no longer a 'minor' league just a 'different' league.

    5. Create large pay to play youth systems. These youth clubs do make money, from huge camps and youth player fees. Some camps cost $400+ and will have 400-500 kids. This youth system pay to play model is not great from a development standpoint, but financially it could provide for some stable income, allow for direct marketing of your brand to youth, and may be able to develop young players for your club. Coaches would be from the club, either 1st team asst coaches or even players. The extra income from coaching these kids could make coaching or playing in NASL similar to playing/coaching salaries.

    6. Use the huge system to leverage sponsorship deals. Small D2 or D3 clubs can only attract very small sponsors. But the league with 100 clubs with 100 youth systems all with 100s of kids in each system...now all of a sudden that is a whole lot of players, jerseys, games, fans, parents all watching. The advertising dollars become more appealing than just one little club in D2. So what if you could get the naming right '???? NASL' and have web advertising on every website, and shirt sponsorship on every single shirt in the whole league including the youth teams? Well that is pretty marketable. It is quite possible you could find 1 major sponsor to take the whole package which could cover much of the operating costs of the league. Remember we already cut the travel costs and allowed no-pay college kids to join teams so operating costs go way down, if league income goes up from a major sponsor it could mean less franchise/dues to the league allowing for a stronger business model for each club.

    7. Forget about FSC and paying money to get on TV. Go 100% online. It has become so cheap to broadcast live online, you can get 3 HD cameras at best buy for $500 each, and a $800 video mixer and a lap top and 4 guys from a local film school making $200 each and have a live telecast that looks better than what NASL does now. Have a centralized announcer watching anywhere in the world online and giving commentary via a live stream microphone. This allows you to find really good commentators and not need to rely on local often crappy talent. Do it all virtually for really cheap, set up a iphone/droid app and make it easy for anyone to watch these games. Embed ads on every live stream of the major league sponsors and have the commentator take breaks to mention other ads. You can try to SELL the national playoffs to FSC (even for $1) but forget this idea of paying FSC is helping anything because it is not. Fans can watch it online just as easy. If FSC wants it then great, but no more payments.

    8. Rework most/all brands. Drop the minor league sounding names logos. Use crowd sourcing sites to find amazing design talent for $100s not 100k. Find new exciting brands, new websites, and an overall relaunch in the communities. The concept being no longer a 'minor league' a 'different league' focus names and identities not on euro sounding names but on local pride and history. Make these clubs feel like they belong to these communities.

    9. Make roster limits not on national international players but on senior and youth players. Limit how many 'old guys' you have on any team. This needs to be a league of youth players, the 'stars of tomorrow' guys that you can sell hopefully and make back your money. Look at how many guys with PDL histories made it to Europe. If the teams can cash in on those players, it would be a great revenue source. Better than MLS since individual clubs will own players and make 100% of sale.

    10. Create all-star traveling teams (players all need to be under 25) and have the league pay for them to take a few week break and travel to europe and play reserve teams in europe as showcases. This is how you can sell players and get revenue. These showcases will take place in smaller euro countries that would be more interested in our talent. MLS reserve players would probably be exempt from these traveling teams.



    ok, those are just 10. I could probably think of 100. It is way too radical to ever happen, but if I had 1M and was going to invest in something the last thing I would do is invest in minor league soccer. Hell getting a subway would be much smarter. But if the business plan actually started to work in markets it would encourage more investment and new investors. Right now D2 seems to exist to test markets for MLS which isn't the worst thing in the world, but isn't much of a business plan either.
     
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  6. Krammerhead

    Krammerhead Guest

    Heh, I know I'm being pedantic, but Vancouver is not N. West Canada, it's about as much South West Canada as you can get! :D
     
  7. StlSpursFan

    StlSpursFan Member

    Jan 29, 2008
    Da 314
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Russia
    this but also work out agreements with all the local pubs to make sure the games get played on TVs where potential fans are. Gotta let people know about something before you can expect them to find it online
     
  8. 4door

    4door Member+

    Mar 7, 2006
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ha meant nw of north america (the league) not the nation. :)

    any smart business plan (or revision) includes
    a) decreasing spending
    b) increasing revenue

    my suggestions for decreasing spending
    1. cut down spending on trips, regional leagues only until playoffs
    2. end payments to FSC, go all online utilizing a single high quality announcers remotely watching and commenting on the live stream increasing the quality of the presentation and decreasing the cost
    3. use crowdsourcing sites to come up with high quality brands (logos, shirt designs, and websites) for a fraction of traditional costs

    my suggestions for increasing revenue
    1. make agreements with NCAA allowing you to use scholarship athletes 'on loan' from their college teams at no cost or deferred payments
    2. develop pay-to-play youth set ups that offer both revenue and additional income opportunities for players and coaches
    3. create large league with a united sales force to sell 1 big league sponsor for all shirt sponsors and league naming rights
    4. traveling youth all-star teams in europe with hopes of selling players

    there are all realistic in my mind, getting NCAA to work with the league and get all these smaller independent leagues to get together might be hard but I think together in one well organized system can be the only hope. What they can't do is try to simply be MLS part 2. Forget about national leagues forget about national TV deals. These clubs are dying within a few years building up national brands are impossible why most clubs won't be around in a few years. There was a reason why MLS dropped so much money on TV, for NASL/USL it is foolish. Focus locally, rethink spending, reduce overhead, and try to increase quality with youth players.
     
  9. 4door

    4door Member+

    Mar 7, 2006
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    yea, but for me I think youth players is actually the key for this. I think if you can start getting really quality young players that Euro teams are looking at I think it can be like free advertising for these clubs. I know when I heard Arsenal was looking at Luis Gil I went out to try to find video of the kid playing. If he wasn't on the bench in MLS (which is a horrible idea) and was playing and starting in a D2 team and was available to watch online for free (cough**MLS$100***cough) I would check them out even if they are playing in another part of the country.

    Yes, getting local feeds at pubs would be great, they'd need a slingbox or just a way to plug the computer into the TV but no matter what in the end the hope is that quality can help build the 'brands' not just massive ad campaigns because these clubs really can't afford it.
     
  10. Krammerhead

    Krammerhead Guest

    I like all of these ideas, especially cutting down on travel and stopping paying for the games to be broadcast. One thing about future webcasts is proper presentation. If possible camera's should always be shooting towards a stadiums main grandstand. For instance in Vancouver at Swangard stadium the camera is always facing away from the main grandstand towards the small bleachers on the other side of the field. Gives the stadium the appearance of being bush league. I have been told that back in the CSL days they occasionally shot the games from the other side so the main stand and most of the fans are in the shots. Same for Portland. I have seen webcasts where the camera faces the empty outfield wall (which looks bad) and webcasts where th camera is on the other side of the field with the main stand in view. Just looks more professional.
     
  11. 4door

    4door Member+

    Mar 7, 2006
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    i actually own/operate a media production company. It can be done for a fraction of the costs of having it produced for FSC. And I don't think the numbers would be much different. The value given by national TV is minimal for a league who can't even guarantee teams will make it to the end of the season. You pay broadcast fees to build brands, but this is a walk before you run thing. It is a useless expense. Local TV...ok, you can probably find a local channel that will play them for free if the production is decent, but focus online and forget national TV.
     
  12. ButlerBob

    ButlerBob Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 13, 2001
    Evanston, IL
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think we need to keep in mind that most of the teams that are having financial issues had a very short build up before the season started. And that's the time that you have to seel season tickets and sponsorship. You need to do well to actaully pay for things during the pre season and the first part of the season. At this level the vast majority of your revenue is coming from ticket sales and sponsorship. TV and online revenue is a nice to have, but not going to pay your big bills. You need to sell ticketsna and spsonsorship to do that. So the biggest thing these teams can do is have dedicated folks to do both. At this level you need a broad range of revenue streams, so the paid media will help, but won't carry your team. Other imprortant revenue areas are merchandis and camps. To me camps can be the biggest help. Because not only can you get some additional revenue, but also sell some additional tickets. You include the cost of a ticket the camper and then offer addition tickets for family at say a group rate.
     
  13. 4door

    4door Member+

    Mar 7, 2006
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    the heart of the issue is that if you are trying to sell tickets to average people in the community, most will never even heard of these D2 teams before they actually get to the stadium to watch them. They won't see much difference from a good D2 team or a good PDL team. These teams don't have this huge branding power since most of them come and go and rebrand so often.

    Having said that long trips to go play Miami FC in front of 500 people for Minnesota is a huge huge huge waste of money and time. No other league in the world has their 2nd division teams traveling so far for almost every game.

    If you created regional divisions with all the minor leagues you could create a 'heartland league' where Minnesota would never have to travel far. Maybe to Milwaukee, Des Moines, St. Louis, Omaha, Winnipeg, Chicago...all bus rides not plane rides, all just a few hours away (6 probably the most). It makes the business model much better. Will more people show up to see CP baltimore than would see Des Moines menace? no. There is no real benefit to having such an expansive league. There is a reason why Charleston Battery with history, a SSS, and usually good squads is choosing to not play in D2. We have many instances of SELF regulation. In this country people scream about pro/rel but we have many teams who actually stepped down on their own because it was killing them. It shows there is a huge problem here. It is geographically way too big for this scale of business. It is the #1 issue, and regional leagues with national playoffs to me is the best solution.
     
  14. brentgoulet

    brentgoulet Member+

    Oct 12, 2005
    PuertoPlata, DomRep
    Very good idea, with 18 MLS reserves, 10 USSF div 2, 6 USL-2, 67 PDL, 31 NPSL, 9 PRSL, 13 CSL and 17 PCSL we could be talking 171 teams for the 2011 season. With 12 teams per division this would mean 14 regional divisions
     
  15. Seph

    Seph Member

    Dec 2, 2004
    St. Louis, Mo., USA
    Club:
    St. Louis Lions
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Travel expenses are an issue, but in the scenario you just described, six hours would be the shortest trip for St. Louis, not the longest. St. Louis to Des Moines is six hours, to Minnesota is ten, Winnipeg is seventeen. No ones going to travel seventeen hours by bus to play the next day, so you have to fly, and flying to Winnipeg or Minnesota is not really any cheaper than flying to Rochester or Tampa.

    The East Coast is really the only place where regional leagues are possible. The rest of us are screwed no matter what.
     
  16. brentgoulet

    brentgoulet Member+

    Oct 12, 2005
    PuertoPlata, DomRep
    I know they are small countries but if you take a look at second division soccer in Holland and Belgium

    Holland; the largest distance must be Leeuwarden - Maastricht with 162 miles

    Belgium; largest distance must be Ostend - Eupen with 141 miles

    compare this to Vancouver - Puerto Rico with 3789 miles or Austin - Montreal with 1671
     
  17. 4door

    4door Member+

    Mar 7, 2006
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    1st of all flights to cities are not exactly quick. You need to be in the airport an hour before, then fly (from STL to PR is probably 4.5 hrs and probably 3hrs to Miami) and these stadium are usually way out in the burbs or outskirts of the city. In which you pack the team into vans and drive out to the stadium or motel. Right now you are still probably talking 5 hour+ trips to some markets even with planes. With buses you are talking directly from stadium to stadium. And only a few hours difference not an incredible amount of difference.

    I wasnt trying to actually make up these leagues now, but you could imagine something like this in the midwest

    1 AC Saint Louis XX
    2 St. Louis Lions XX
    3 Kansas City Brass 4 hours
    4 Springfiend Demize 3.5 hours
    5 Des Moines Menace 6 hours
    6 Omaha Expansion 7 hours
    7 NSC Minnesota Stars 8 hours
    8 Rochester Thunder 8 hours
    9 Minnesota Kings 8 hours
    10 St. Paul Twin Stars 8 hours

    there is just no way to make it as easy as it is in the Northeast for instance, but shorter travel will cost less. I was just listening to a podcast from Rochester (sorry forget the guys names) but they were talking about how an away game can cost up to $20,000 for the Rhinos. The bottom line is that every club has a lot more money going out than coming in. Which is ok in MLS because league values are going up each year and owners who bought in at 10M can sell now for 40M, that doesn't exist in D2, we don't even know if leagues will be around in a year. You need revenue to go up and costs to go down, it is the only way to make it work. Yes a long bus trip will suck, but if you reduce travel costs and makes your business sustainable, that is what will need to happen.
     
  18. WhiteStar Warriors

    Mar 25, 2007
    St.Pete/Krakow
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Actually Florida has a league like that: Florida Elite Soccer League

    http://69.93.232.139/
     
  19. 4door

    4door Member+

    Mar 7, 2006
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    they exist on the lower end of the scale. For instance Chicago has our own league that has been in existance for about 90 years old - http://www.nslchicago.org but the issue is that these guys are really small, just rec leagues mostly. We need to get everyone together under 1 big roof to cut down on travel and expenses. Keep it regional and then have national playoffs. NASL, USL PDL, NPSL, CSL, PRSL, PCSL...you name it everyone even MLS reserve leagues and future expansion. One huge D2 system where all games are a bus ride away would lower expenses incredibly making the system much more stable. Yes some teams will come and go which is the nature of minor league sports, but the league itself would be much stronger and much more attractive to sponsors if it represented 100+ teams and 100+ youth systems.
     
  20. WhiteStar Warriors

    Mar 25, 2007
    St.Pete/Krakow
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    well the us open cup is kind of like that.
     
  21. babykhris

    babykhris Member

    Philadelpia Union
    Nov 30, 2008
    Philadlphia,PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For Division 2 to survive I think it's time they merge with MLS.

    3 Teams already heading to MLS, so the others can become farm clubs for the MLS teams.
     
  22. 4door

    4door Member+

    Mar 7, 2006
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    yea just being bought out is an option but that isn't really a business model. From MLS perspective I don't see why they would buy D2 for farm teams and take over what looks like a failed business model. In the end they would see all the same problems that currently exist. They see D2 as a testing ground right now. What they want is for teams to start up (like Tampa for instance) show that there is interest and then carry that over into major investors and cities that are interested in stadiums. This was the 'cooper plan' i guess but that one didn't really work out. MLS wants D2 for this reason, not to compete, not to merge, not anything that will ever cost them a dime, they want cities to grow into soccer markets, they want another league to do the work, and they want to be the only game in town that fans and city officials will want their club to buy into. That is their model, and buying a sinking ship makes no sense for them. If minor league soccer is going to exist in this country/canada it has to go regional or else the expenses will cause team after team to collapse or self relegate just like it has for the past 20 years.
     
  23. eclipse02

    eclipse02 Member

    Sep 20, 2009
    The only part of the Cooper plan that failed was the fianacing, when 2 of his biggest investors lost a ton of money over in england.
     
  24. speedcake

    speedcake Member

    Dec 2, 1999
    Tampa
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ya wtf is this talk about the "Cooper plan" failing? The league is 6 weeks old. MLS is 15 years old and still has problems. Maybe the EPL should buy MLS and turn it into a farm league.

    think before you type.
     
  25. Jim Bob Rhino

    Jim Bob Rhino Member

    Jan 17, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is that all?

    ;)
     

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