What are you looking for in the 2020 Democratic candidate: restore norms, or counterrevolution?

Discussion in 'Elections' started by superdave, Feb 19, 2019.

  1. Q*bert Jones III

    Q*bert Jones III The People's Poet

    Feb 12, 2005
    Woodstock, NY
    Club:
    DC United
    #51 Q*bert Jones III, Mar 18, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
    So you'd be cool with River winning 5 MLS Cups in a row as long as Boca were building the better youth team? Suffice to say I don't believe you.
     
  2. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    That’s not what happened. In the past roughly 27 years we got two Republican presidents, Bush and Trump, and two Democratic presidents, Clinton and Obama. So your analogy would be two titles for Boca and two for River, with Boca arguably producing the better teams and being now better prepared to face the future. Even as somebody who tends to lean right on many issues I would agree with this.
     
  3. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’m extremely confused.
     
  4. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I'm pretty sure he meant Superliga titles, but whatever, I guess to some all soccer leagues are the same.
     
  5. Q*bert Jones III

    Q*bert Jones III The People's Poet

    Feb 12, 2005
    Woodstock, NY
    Club:
    DC United
    I crack myself up. I may not necessarily always crack you knuckleheads up.
     
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  6. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    I believe that this is Q*bert's way of breaking it to us that River will be relegated to MLS.
     
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  7. Q*bert Jones III

    Q*bert Jones III The People's Poet

    Feb 12, 2005
    Woodstock, NY
    Club:
    DC United
    Why bother relegating Argie teams when we can just buy all their best players/coaches?
     
  8. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Yeah, when they are washed up :)
     
  9. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I mostly agree with you, but McConnell is as craven as Trump. He's as much a threat to our democratic institutions as Donny, he's just not a populist demagogue.
     
  10. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've got two thoughts.

    One, why do we use the "populist" label as a slur against politicians who, I'd argue, are simply normal politicians that are especially charismatic?

    I mean, perhaps it's simply a litmus test on how "dumbed down" the policy discussion/slogan tends to be, but I'd imagine that any politician wants to enact his/her ideas. Poke holes in the idea, not in the people who like that idea, or politician(s) who promote it.

    Two, my vote is going to the candidate that is going to use the lightest touch upon the power of Executive Order. Over the last 3 presidencies (the only ones I've really been aware of), Executive Orders have been used insanely frequently, and they've drastically increased the power of the Executive. If it's pushed any further, the primary way in which laws are passed will soon be through Executive Order, at which point we're basically a dictatorship.
     
  11. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bill Barr as AG, given his record, is another point for the "counterrevolution" side.
     
  12. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Well, not all populist politicians are charismatic and not all charismatic politicians are populist. One that is both, to me can be a red flag, especially if he also shows some characteristics of being a demagogue, and I would probably not vote for that candidate.

    It's like if I'm dating, I would appreciate charismatic women and I might put up with one who is a bit into herself, but if one shows red flags that she may be both, I probably wouldn't date her again, because it could be a sign of a dangerous narcissist. Why take a chance?
     
  13. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not every politician is charismatic, but if you're a "populist", you're guaranteed to be particularly charismatic for specific groups of people.

    I don't like that particular label, because it demonizes someone for being particularly popular with particular groups of people, rather than for having particularly bad ideas. In particular, it seems to be used as a way too off-handedly dismiss groups of people swayed by a politician as idiots.

    FDR was a populist. Mao was a populist. Stalin was a populist. The label tells you nothing about their ideas, which are, needless to say, very different. But it does insult fairly well.

    In a hypothetical, I am a politician that wears purple shirts. My policies attract many people that wear dark-colored shirts. My opponent, rather than argue against my ideas, will simply say that anyone who wears dark shirts and likes my ideas is falling for a populist siren song.

    And, pro-tip, politicians are constantly appealing to people's feelings and exploiting their fears. The ones that tell you they are not, are just lying. It's how politicians simplify normally-boring discussions about policy specifics into soundbites and phrases that win elections.
     
  14. Boandlkramer

    Boandlkramer Member+

    Apr 9, 2009
    Samma Weltmeister!
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    After living in Germany for several years as a civilian and now moving back to the US......

    VASTLY different is an understatement...I’m in the 6 figure range and even so, I had an anxiety attack today after my first visit with a civilian provider...I’m contemplating how to get back to Germany once I check the professional blocks I need to here.

    I’m a single issue voter this primary season; UHC and whoever can get us closest to it is who I’ll support. Our medical system is a sh*tshow.
     
  15. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I may just decide to support whichever candidate is the strongest on treating the MSM as an enemy that has failed to confront the worst excesses of Trumpism and is addicted to bothsidesism to the point of uselessness.
     
  16. MatthausSammer

    MatthausSammer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 9, 2012
    Canada
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I don't want to see a country where both parties make the press their punching bag.
     
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  17. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Do you prefer a country where one side does, and the media respond by shaping the narratives based on that party's desires?
     
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  18. MatthausSammer

    MatthausSammer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 9, 2012
    Canada
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    No. I'm just not willing to stoop to the same level. It's important that the press have credibility as a moderately impartial arbiter. Are they perfect? No. But I don't want to go down the road of attempting to intimidate them and damage their credibility to force supporters to turn to whatever Leftist echo chamber emerges as their equivalent of Breitbart or Drudge. That doesn't help the situation.
     
  19. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Let me clarify.

    I do NOT mean “enemy if the people.” I mean call bullshit on obvious bullshit, and do it in a very aggressive way.

    For example, the Dema should have gone postal on the news outlets that mischaracterized the Barr letter.
     
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  20. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire

    That would be terrible for the bottom line.
     
  21. MatthausSammer

    MatthausSammer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 9, 2012
    Canada
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    What do you mean by the bottom line?
     
  22. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    American idiom: "bottom line" refers to the part of the balance sheet where a business' profit or loss is determined.
     
  23. MatthausSammer

    MatthausSammer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 9, 2012
    Canada
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I'm aware of the idiom in reference to a business. The confusion stemmed from me not considering a political party a business. Was wondering if you meant votes or fundraising.
     
  24. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    My mistake: I was unclear that I was speaking in the voice of a corporate media outlet, not the party.
     
  25. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was talking about the Dem candidate.
     

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