West Ham v. The Arsenal, Saturday January 12 2019, 1230 GMT

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by mebeSajid, Jan 10, 2019.

  1. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Rangers
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Karo Viertel
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    As the anoraks have opined

    Mkhi is also quite critical to the high press and direct play but is now injured
     
  2. ArsenalJake

    ArsenalJake Member+

    Feb 11, 2013
    Charlotte
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed, my point (somewhat disguised by its snarky, rhetoricalness) was that nobody was complaining when we weren't losing.
     
  3. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Rangers
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Karo Viertel
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    We complained so much @NorthBank told us to stop talking about XG!
     
  4. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    That is not true. It's not just us. Even big blogs like arseblog complained as well. We were all saying that our results were much better than our performances, and we were glad to be able to discuss our problems during an unbeaten run because it sure beats discussing problems on a losing run.
     
  5. crazy150

    crazy150 Member+

    Aug 27, 2006
    North Cuba
    I didn’t say they were mutually exclusive. I was only highlighting that this squad is not great now and hasn’t been great for quite some time. They are capable of great performances, but it is a very inconsistent squad. And that’s true whether we have Ramsey, ozil, or both. Whether we have Emery or Wenger, whether we play 3 or 4 or 5 at the back.

    People just key in on things and the ozil/Ramsey situation is flavor de jour. We know how good the squad can be with ozil and Ramsey being first on the team sheet, and it was exactly good enough to get the manager fired. Are fans so naive that they think a new manager can just come in, pull a coupe of levers and make a 6th place squad 3rd?

    Emery is trying to change the squad fundamentally. Through different and expanded roles, different personel, formations, etc. he may never get it right and he may be fired, but we’ve jumped in his ship so let’s let him steer it for now.

    I’d also recommend fans watch his past teams play so they have the right expectations—there are some full games on YouTube. Pick something besides a big game. His teams do attack plenty, but he doesn’t play the beautiful game of Arsenes cesc years. It is more direct and based on quick counters and high risk passes.
     
  6. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Rangers
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Karo Viertel
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    We were even told off for being too negative!
     
  7. ArsenalJake

    ArsenalJake Member+

    Feb 11, 2013
    Charlotte
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fair enough. Whenever I see a post with the term XG, I tend to just move on to the next one! :p
     
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  8. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Rangers
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Karo Viertel
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    While the squad has big issues, it has been strengthened a lot in the last year.

    Sure we still lack a proper winger, but we now have an elite 9, a proper 6, and exciting young 8, a proper right sided midfielder etc etc

    Emery has better resources than late phase Wumger
     
  9. crazy150

    crazy150 Member+

    Aug 27, 2006
    North Cuba
    I got you. Denfense is a huge problem. It’s a little unfair though as well. We are sitting 9th in XGA vs 7th last season and defense was healthier last season with Nacho/Kos a year younger. We’ve had to play Lichtsteiner in 9 games bc AMN was hurt who was available last term. We will see after a full season, but we seem on trajectory for a similar defense.
     
  10. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    No one's saying that though. Their are three main concerns right now:

    1. We all recognize that our squad isn't top level, but most of us believe that Ozil and Ramsey are two of our best players, and the team would perform better (not great, not perfect, not championship level, just better) with them than without them.

    2. From what I've already mentioned, there are good reasons to expect Emery (and lets be fair, it is something he also expects and demand) to have superior defense to Wenger, but so far, it is, at best, equal, so this is a major concern.

    3. Attacking wise, we are still a team that lacks any real identity and style, and is clearing still absolutely reliant on individual skills to get us the much needed goals, rather than any consistent combinations from the players.
     
  11. footykid

    footykid Member+

    Jan 10, 2005
    Mississauga, Ont
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Nah mate I can't jive with this analysis.

    The regression came when key parts of what made or style of chance creating effective.

    It be one thing if we were playing a similar line up, but the playing staff situation is a mess. So much of our strategy relied on our high level of fitness. You can argue that is a poor strategy in the premium given scheduling. But this is not a regression to predicted results. It's the team not having the parts to play the strategy and failing to find a new one.
     
  12. crazy150

    crazy150 Member+

    Aug 27, 2006
    North Cuba
    Wenger had Auba and miki as well and Sanchez, failed at 4th and the EL. He also had fit nacho, mostly fit Koscielny until EL semi, mostly fit Danny, etc. Torriera has been great, but he also had a couple of awful games recently. Sok is basically a wash for last season Kos. Mustafi same as last. Bellarin same. AMN was fit for aux fullback duty vs Leicsteiner this season.

    Anyway, Wenger was a better coach and anyone that says otherwise is pretty dumb or naive I think. There was always going to be some shortcomings in this department I feel. However, AW became a single point of failure at the club wrt personel and was failing to adapt to the new landscape of football tactics as well. Emery comes in as part of a new team to replace AW.

    It won’t be until that team has time to work things out that we will see a real result. Emery is probably a 2-3 yr appointment that may or may not be successful, but he has a history feasting on scraps of the big spending clubs which is where we are at the moment. Sven and Raúl have a successful history as well. So, let’s trust the process for more than 5 minimutes is what I’m saying and stop focusing on small picture.

    If Mesut and Ramsey are casualties of this is that process really so bad? I am really excited by iwobi and holding, guendouzi, torriera and the academy trio. All of which seem to be firmly in emery’s picture for the next two seasons.

    Fair points. Ramsey is playing a lot and contributing. He seems to be being managed. He missed double digit games last season with tissue injuries.

    Ozil is an issue I agree, but still a lack of info as to what’s going on. Also, no guarantee he would help much as I pointed out.

    Can you please tel me what the attacking identity was last season—serious question.
     
  13. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Like @The Jitty Slitter said, people complained. It was just drowned out, understandably, by the results.
     
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  14. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Rangers
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Karo Viertel
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    He had sanchez I agree.

    Auba and Mkhi were only for a few months, came in mid season and not properly integrated IMO
     
  15. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Rangers
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Karo Viertel
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Meh

    In broad strokes - all it took was some adversity and bad luck to kick in

    It's not even bad luck though - injuries are to be expected
     
  16. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    There was none, that's the problem! We were a team that simply relied on superior individual quality to beat weaker teams, but, not just last season, for the last two years under Wenger, we had no real style of attacking.

    Emery's team doesn't seem to have one either, but he's only been in the job for 6 months, so he obviously deserves a lot more time. Having said that, someone like Klopp had a very clearly defined style since like the first 3 months of his tenure, but it still wasn't at least 18 months before it became refined.
     
  17. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    I found this to be an interesting take on Emery's style.

    https://theshortfuse.sbnation.com/2019/1/14/18181696/unai-emery-arsenal-tactics-premier-league

    The problem i see is that there doesn't appear to be a coherent plan B. Without Ozil and/or Ramsey there is almost no combination play and far less one touch passing in the middle of the field, than with them. If teams only have to prepare for a predictable plan A, it makes their job a whole lot easier.
     
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  18. crazy150

    crazy150 Member+

    Aug 27, 2006
    North Cuba
    You have to give the new signings this year the same time to integrate as Auba and miki last. Auba and miki are seasoned internationals, have played together, and miki has played in the prem. Torreira, guen are young players and Sokratis is a defender learning a new league and teammates.

    Also, regardless of the whole ozil tactical selection issue, he has been out with injury for some games by his own admission. Danny and miki are out as well. Nacho has been out, Koscielny, Kola, Héctor. None of the injuries appear to be due to over-use except maybe Héctor. So I think it’s unfair to say that Emery has had more resources than Wenger had last season.
     
  19. footykid

    footykid Member+

    Jan 10, 2005
    Mississauga, Ont
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    I think people got excited about the run, and now are coming down to earth. It was exciting to think we might nick 4th but that required luck, and others to be unlucky. It was never really ours for the taking. The club needs time to build up the institution, and have the subs. This was my fundamental issue with the end of the Wenger-era we weren't winning and we weren't doing anything to really be better in the future.

    I'm not triggered and reacting because all the players that made the fundamentals of the style that was being implented are gone. And the cupboard is barren. If we were honest fans we would admit to ourselves that we were going to have player selection issues.

    My beef with Emery is playing the number of seniors players he did in the Carbabo cup as he did, and the Europa League. Not using our jr defenders or Jenkinsons more before we got hit with a wall of injuries. As soon as AMN went down on Match day 1 it was the clear the defence was going to get run ragged.
     
  20. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Rangers
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Karo Viertel
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Agreed. The run was fun, but it was clear it was lucky and bound to end.

    I also said at the time, despite the amazing run, we just scraped into the top 4. So it was bound to end in tears once we got some more realistic results.

    While I don't disagree, I do think Emery ballsed up over Christmas. First he overplayed his first choices - e.g in the cup vs Spurs

    And then he has got a lot invested in his Ozil grudge, Has that really helped things? When things were going well, Ozil was making a big impact in key games.

    I know why he wanted to bring it to the boil for January but i do wonder if it hasn't helped matters.

    Yes - that was really dumb.
     
  21. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Does anyone think the team is tuning Emery out cuz of this Özil stuff?
     
  22. ArsenalJake

    ArsenalJake Member+

    Feb 11, 2013
    Charlotte
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #147 ArsenalJake, Jan 14, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019
    Honestly, something I think about quite often is how many thousands of variables there can be "inside the locker room" or even "in the boardroom" of a football club, that there really is no way for anyone to just flat out state "this is the way it is, this is what's going on" etc, and for that to be 100% of the story.

    The truth is, most of the time, most of you guys are probably right that this thought or that truth or whatever is is absolutely true for one or more persons inside the club. But there are just too many people involved for any one thing or thought to be 100% of the story.

    Is the team tuning Emery out cuz of this Ozil stuff? There could very well be some of that going on, but what I think you want to know is, to what degree is this happening? I'm willing to bet that the answer also varies from day to day, from player to player, from situation to situation. It's the point at which it becomes so much the norm that it really starts to matter, and also usually when people outside the club start to catch wind of it.

    In my opinion, at this point--with word of Emery now saying the club should seek a buyer for Ozil (that's what I saw today on ESPN.com)--I'd say that defenders of Ozil in the locker room could very well be tuning Emery out already. However, for this to be true, the player would either have not bought into what Emery is about, or they themselves are being shut out by Emery. Personally, I'm not worried about the latter group. For example, I'm not sure I care which camp Elneny is in on Emery, he's clearly not in Emery's plans. If I were Emery, I'd be most concerned about Ozil backers who ARE in Emery's plans.
     
  23. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I was an emery fanboy but this ozil shit is betond stupid

    We lack creativity so badly but he chooses iwobi over ozil? Very odd considering we don’t seem to have a very good press atm?

    Very apathetic atm to all this. No signings yet either
     
  24. KozIsCul

    KozIsCul Member+

    Feb 6, 2005
    Yeah, that's what it means to have a high ceiling. For the most part, he hasn't shown a whole lot in the way of limitations to the point where it's pretty clear that he can't do this or that.

    Not really. Ozil compromises the player movement of the whole team, and it's hard to know even if he's available since apparently he's not training. Miki is injured. Iwobi has good close control but doesn't seen enough of the action. ESR is probably a decent option but you wonder exactly how close he is to playing in the senior squad.
     
  25. KozIsCul

    KozIsCul Member+

    Feb 6, 2005
    Who didn't see that one coming?
     

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