Welcome to Manchester - Bastian Schweinsteiger

Discussion in 'Manchester United' started by nimma, Jul 11, 2015.

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  1. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    The problem for his style of game is that his legs are gone and he is always just that bit slow in the challenge or unable to be that dynamic influence like he used to.

    You could first see it vs Rakitic / Barca a couple of seasons ago.

    In theory if he could just get match fit and have a run of games he could get back but he does not seem to be able to physically put that together which is exactly why Bayern replaced him with Vidal - a more physically imposing CM.

    It also needs to be remembered that International football is a lower standard than club football.
     
  2. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Oh yeah - he was great for germany over a decade.

    But he retired for a reason.
     
  3. JamesA

    JamesA Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    Victoria
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I don't always agree with you, but this is bang on.
     
  4. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    If Mario G had not scored that wonder goal, no one would even remember Schweini's performance which largely became a narrative thanks to Argentina's thuggery in extra time.

    Kroos vs France this year was a much more dominant performance IMO
     
  5. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City
    See your post is strange.

    First time around you didn't mention anything about being truly worthy of MUFC. But now that you've been corrected by James you move change or add on to what was originally said.

    Okay even if we want to go that route, name one performance Bastian has put in (since he's been here) that shows him worthy of this club? At least Fellaini has a handful of vital tying or winning goals to his name.

    Then you compare to sub cameos. Bastions less than 10 minutes? What does that achieve?

    Bastian hasn't proven anything on the pitch for this club. To say otherwise is fallacy.

    Mind you I want both players gone anyway. Neither is good enough.
     
  6. Gilma1990

    Gilma1990 Member+

    Jul 30, 2015
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Didn't Germany lose to France?
     
  7. gatekeeper2

    gatekeeper2 Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I'll have to go through the last few posts to see how any of what you just wrote makes any sense.

    My point is fairly straightforward: Schweinsteiger > Fellaini.

    I struggle to see the basis upon which that opinion is erroneous.

    As for your last point -- that both should be sent away -- I agree with that. We're not going to win the prem or CL trophies season (for obvious reasons) and United need to look to rebuilding the squad so that we can lift major trophies next season. We have several old and/or nonproducing players. They are, in no particular order:

    Rooney
    Young
    Carrick
    Fellaini
    Schweinsteiger
    Valencia
    Ibrahimovic

    Apart from Rooney due to his contract, it's inconceivable that any of those players will be at OT two seasons from now. Rooney's contract runs out at the end of the 18-19 season I believe, but don't quote me on that. But putting the Rooney problem aside, the only two players of that group who probably should still be on the squad next season are Valencia and Ibrahimovic. Even Carrick, who at times is still majestic, has to be at the end of his rope when this season ends, although keeping him on as a Giggsian "presence" next season just might be a good idea. Young should be let go. And yes, Bastian and Maroune should be let go at the end of the season as well. The former is a vastly better player than the latter, but United is a club that needs speed and energy in midfield, and neither offer that now.

    But between now and the end of the season Schweinsteiger would give us far more effectively play (see the last five minutes of the West Ham match) than Fellaini, which I acknowledge that might not be saying much.
     
  8. incighte

    incighte Red Card

    May 1, 2016
    there are a lot of posters here who seem to celebrate 'dominance' in loss. i don't understand it either.

    you can not have a dominate performance in a 1-0 loss. a striker can have a dominate performance in a 4-3 loss, 5-4 loss, etc... but it is very hard for midfielders to have dominant performances and lose the game - mainly because the team that wins the midfield is usually the team that wins the game.
     
  9. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Did you even watch the game?

    France went ahead on a penalty on an error rather than winning any midfield battle

    Kroos turned in one of his best ever performances
     
  10. incighte

    incighte Red Card

    May 1, 2016
    yes i did. the game was drab. that was not one of kroos' best ever performances. players of kroos' quality don't lose games when they turn in a top 10 performance of their career.
     
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  11. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #736 Ashur, Dec 9, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2016
    Kroos had a decent game, especially in the first half. But just like it can't be said about Schweinsteiger efficient display vs Argentina in the WC final that it was vintage or nowhere near his best one, the same applies to Kroos in that game vs France.
    Seriously, if that was his best (or one of his best performances ever), the bar is relatively low for a guy considered as one of the best mids in the game at the moment.
     
    Gilma1990 repped this.
  12. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    It was a game where Germany dominated midfield - but Piggy's error threw the game away as France didn't have to do anything after that and Germany continued to struggle with no 9

    http://www.zonalmarking.net/2016/07...rmation-decisions-enable-germany-to-dominate/

    Anyway - Piggy was shit in that game

    The idea he is relevant for you is stretching it.

    And

    So that is the trouble with scoreboard journalism and game states

    Kroos dominated the game - but Piggy tossed it on the fire because he is physically not up to it
     
    benni... repped this.
  13. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As mentioned, Kroos did have a pretty good game and was inflential in Germany's midfield. That's not in question here (nor Germany's clear control and domination of the game, particularly in the first half): the goalposts don't need to be moved here.
    The point that is being debated, was whether this ranks as one of Kroos's best or one of the best of all time. The answer is clearly no on both counts.
     
  14. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    One of Kroos best

    That tourney was so shit there were no all time performances in my view
     
  15. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No All Time performances (which I completely agree with) yet it's one of Kroos's best. I guess now I'm really confused...
     
  16. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    I think Kroos would only now be entering contention as an All Timer as far as german midfielders go

    Piggy would not even make the list IMO

    And Euro 2016 was one of the worst quality tourneys I have ever seen

    Would you rank even one of the games/performances as ATG?
     
  17. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Who's arguing that Euro 2016 was poor and very disappointing? Schweinsteiger is not the topic of discussion right at this moment. So I'm really not sure what those points have to do with Kroos's display vs France, which I believe was good, but in no way was even close to his very best or in the discussion for All Time German (or otherwise) midfield performances ever.
     
  18. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    I thought he turned in a wonderful performance - in keeping with his development into one of the best CMs in the modern game.

    But its in the context of a shit game vs a poor french team - one that does not deserve to be discussed in terms of the great french teams of 10-15 years ago. So you couldn't compare it to his own games vs elite opposition or other german midfielders of the past

    Especially the French midfield was awful hence why Kroos and Ozil dominated
     
  19. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We may differentiate on the wording, and I guess that's fine. But the bottom line remains that there is simply no way I will consider this as an "All Time" performance.
    There are more than enough unquestionable dominant and elite midfield performances from German midfielders from Spain 82 (the first WC I've seen as a kid) until now, that choosing Kroos's one vs France last year is a poor example of one in my opinion, even if I do agree he had a good game that day (especially in the first half)...
     
  20. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    We agree

    He played really well - but no way can that game even come into consideration.
     
  21. Ruud v.Nistelrooy 10

    Staff Member

    Jamaica
    Jun 4, 2006
    Antilla
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Jamaica
  22. gatekeeper2

    gatekeeper2 Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Schweinsteiger named MOTM against Wigan:

    http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...r-united-news-bastian-schweinsteiger-12524904

    The previous point, that Schweinsteiger is vastly superior to Fellaini, is beyond any debate.

    True, the opponent yesterday was lowly Wigan. But it's also true that Fellaini was in midseason form and that this was Schweinsteiger's first start in over a year. Yet Bastian outclassed Marouane.
     
  23. sdotsom

    sdotsom Member+

    Manchester United
    Mar 27, 2005
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    It's not hard to outclass Fellaini as a midfielder to be fair. But yeah Schwein was fine. There are games for him to play throughout this season, whether it's lower class EPL teams, or possibly a Europa League tie. And at the end of the year he and Wazza can head to the MLS.
     
  24. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City
    Don't know how he won mom, he was ass for 45 minutes and couldn't win a tackle or even run back.

    He slowed the game down, but not for our benefit.
     
  25. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #750 Ashur, Jan 30, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
    He won the MotM award, perhaps because as stated yesterday, from the end of the first period on, he undeniably put his stamp on and effectively ran the game. Despite what was an iffy start: it seems obvious enough that what matters most is how one finishes a game, as opposed to how he started it...
     

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