I should note that while Özil posing with erdogan was disappointing - I understand it (In light of Özil still having family in turkey ) Dfb can ******** themelves No one said anything and Mattheus Clear double standard
Starting a war of aggression is a war crime. Doesn't really matter that others in the Bush administration had influence: Bush was the President at the time and gave the orders in question. Hasn't really been litigated, because the politics of a war crimes tribunal are such that it's really difficult to prosecute a war of aggression, but the Iraq War was fairly clear cut. Ditto for war crimes tribunals for torture. Yes. That is the correct conclusion. Tony Blair also deserves to be in front of a war crimes tribunal. Kudos to you for not forgetting Poland. You need to surrender your law license. Whether Bush was a figurehead goof isn't really relevant: he gave the order to start a war that resulted in a million deaths. Him. Erdogan is an authoritarian, sure (calling him a dictator is silly - he just won reelection with 53% of the vote). But he wasn't the but for cause of a million people dying.
This thread is off the chain It just isn't the same. Of course it was shitty when American athletes endorsed W--but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about a German athlete endorsing a Turkish leader, and going out of his way to do so. There has been significant outcry over many athletes supporting Trump, and if any were to publicly boost AfD or Le Pen, I imagine the reaction would be similar. The whataboutism is real though. When life comes at you fast Bush did all that shit. I seem to remember there were many "figurehead goofs" who stood trial at Nuremburg--who claimed they were just following orders or were a puppet to ulterior forces. I'm no lawyer, could you remind me what their legal outcome was?
Erdogan advanced the election himself Lol Are you not familiar with Turkish referendum on constitution in April 2017 Man runs the country under the ruse of democracy If you think the Turkish election was impartial then you probably think Putin runs a clean show
Life comes at you fast? Lol ok I am not sure what that means I conceded the point The torture charges would have the best chance to succeed but it would have a hard time in court because i don’t think that it was a generally accepted policy by Government In any event - it’s a silly point as no western leaders would ever see be charged in Hague
Come on. This is starting to look like you have an axe to grind. Accelerating the timeframe of elections is not at all unusual - it happens in a lot of countries. Yeah, the constitutional changes in 2017 weren't great, but they did pass. No evidence to suggest that the elections were rigged - no one rigs an election and keeps the margin THAT close (and also fails to have their own party secure a majority in parliament).
This Ozil story has now made it to p.5 of the NYTimes front section. Seems to me that some heads may roll because of this... a DFB bigwig? Or Hoeness?
Maybe Grindel. But I'm not so sure. Hoeness? Never. The guy spent 3 years in prison for tax fraud - and he said far more outrageous/racist stuff in the past. Rummenigge is more liberal and open to things outside Germany than Hoeness- and a little bit less criminal.
Grindel should go. There will be a lot of pressure on this autumn if Loew fails again. Hoeness is part of the Bayern dignitary - nothing will force him out
I'm not wading into most of this debate, but please read more about Turkey before saying elections were impartial. Total media control, jailing of journalists, firing of countless civil servants, and credible accusations of cheating on votes. We don't need to compare Bush and Erdogan to know that both have done some really bad things and that Erdogan is on the precipice of authoritarianism (if not further along). https://www.economist.com/leaders/2018/06/21/turkeys-president-deserves-to-lose-on-june-24th https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...le-to-be-heard-in-turkeys-media-idUSKBN1JG23Z
FIFA just staged a World Cup in Russia and we heard nary a word about this. If people really cared about “bad hombres,” this tournament never happen.
I never said it does. All I am saying is keep the same energy. Most people don't, including those in Germany who cheeringly sent Germany to the Russia World Cup.
I was in Istanbul at that time. I worked and lived there for 2 years. When the results came out, I stood on my balcony and all the neighbours made noise by banging pots and pans as a sign of protest. Istanbul is very liberal, but some German-Turks who lived there for 10 to 20 years told me that the situation is getting worse year-by-year, basic freedoms are restricted and more and more women in headscarfs are appearing in the streets. It made me a little bit angry to see the election results in German (and Austria/Netherlands) where basically 70% of the Turkish voters voted in favor of Erdogan. IMO, the situation in Turkey will get worse in the coming years. Erdogan`s mixture of ultranationalism and Islamism is very effective. I really like Özil as a player and I was always thankful for him to play for Germany as he had to deal with a lot of abuse from Turkish nationalists who called him a traitor and I also hate the way the DFB has dealt with it and some racist parts in the media and fans - but endorsing Erdogan is a little bit too much for me.
Generally speaking, there weren`t as many German fans going to Russia, because of the bad press Russia received in recent years. IMO you go to such places, but don`t show any support for local politicians and just do your job. Yes, it is a propaganda tool and it helps to boost Putin`s image, but the main culprits are FIFA. Even in 1936 it was possible to keep some distance to the hosts by telling your sportsmen not to show the Nazi salute,etc. And Russia or Qatar - as bad as those places might be - are not as bad as Berlin 1936.
Good insight Although I do not know the whole story behind Ozil posing for photo with erdogan - I suspect that it was not necessarily an endorsement but a mere meet and greet . He might have legit concerns that saying no to erdogan might have negative implications for his family. Ie. enes kanter Pure speculation on my part
USA actually. Maybe there's a pattern emerging? Maybe Murica will have been made great again, the same way Putin did in Russia?
Fewer people are tortured and executed by the state in both of those countries than one of the actual co-hosts I've kinda gotten over what countries host what events because there aren't any good countries that want to host them anyways--and arguably no good events or associations lol. It does suck, however, when the implementation of an event can't happen in a country without the direct use of slavery