Wednesday 11 Dec 2019

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by Stuart95, Dec 10, 2019.

  1. Stuart95

    Stuart95 Member+

    Mar 11, 2012
    NoVA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    CONCACAF Champions League draw: LAFC to face Leon, Atlanta vs. Motagua
    https://www.espn.com/soccer/concaca...ague-draw-lafc-to-face-leonatlanta-vs-motagua

    Seattle Sounders' Garth Lagerwey: We'll go for it in CCL, play kids in early MLS games
    https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019...rwey-well-go-it-ccl-play-kids-early-mls-games

    At opening of new training center, the Revolution’s evolution comes into focus
    https://theathletic.com/1449480/201...r-the-revolutions-evolution-comes-into-focus/

    FC Cincinnati: A three-year plan, or have things changed?
    https://cincinnatisoccertalk.com/2019/12/10/fc-cincinnati-a-three-year-plan-or-have-things-changed/

    NYCFC Offseason Review: Torrent, Reyna Among Key Departures
    https://www.highpresssoccer.com/nycfc-offseason-review-torrent-reyna-among-key-departures/

    New investors will help FC Cincinnati bring "grand ambitions" to reality says Carl Lindner
    https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019...nnati-bring-grand-ambitions-reality-says-carl

    Spector plays big role in Atlanta United signing of players
    https://www.ajc.com/sports/spector-explains-his-role-with-atlanta-united/1p0XgYUoEgtYr0AK7OiKpI/

    MLS in Nashville: Timeline of expansion, stadium developments
    https://www.tennessean.com/story/sp...ille-mls-stadium-timeline-updates/4384556002/

    Sporting Kansas City win Alan Pulido sweepstakes, sign Mexican striker
    https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019...-alan-pulido-sweepstakes-sign-mexican-striker

    Chicago Fire sign defender Nicholas Slonina to a Homegrown deal
    https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019/12/10/chicago-fire-sign-defender-nicholas-slonina-homegrown-deal

    FC Dallas, Jesus Ferreira agree to contract extension
    https://www.prosoccerusa.com/mls/fc-dallas/fc-dallas-jesus-ferreira-agree-to-an-extension/

    Sporting KC brings back forward Khiry Shelton ahead of 2020 MLS campaign
    https://www.kansascity.com/sports/mls/sporting-kc/article238234559.html

    DC United re-sign defender Frederic Brillant to two-year extension
    https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019...defender-frederic-brillant-two-year-extension

    Chicago Fire sign Nicholas Slonina as homegrown, joining his brother on the team
    https://www.prosoccerusa.com/mls/ch...megrown-deal-joining-his-brother-on-the-team/
     
  2. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    “That’s the stadium. When you’re playing in a 68,000-seat venue or a 65,000-seat venue and you’re 30 miles outside the urban core and you don’t have public transportation, not to make excuses, but we’re not gonna lead the league in attendance,” said Kraft. “… But I’m very confident that when we have a stadium in the city — whatever our capacity ends up, whatever that number is 20, 25, 30,000 depending on the size of the footprint we have — I believe we’ll bang it out every week. I really do.

    “Boston is a great sports town, there’s a desire for soccer, but it has to fit. The MLS fan has a sort of lifestyle that they’re leading, and hopping in the minivan and driving down to Foxboro on Saturday night and then having to get back up to the city at 10:30, that just doesn’t fit it. We understand that. MLS has evolved. Still, we’re proud of how we do, and based on how we finished last year, I’d be surprised if we weren’t in the top half of the league in attendance this year. We’ve got a passionate core fanbase and they deserve a stadium. We hope we’ll get it for them.”

    Sadly for that fanbase, there aren’t many new developments to report regarding their search, which is now well into its second decade and far past the $10 million mark. Sources told The Athletic that the club met about a potential stadium location with officials from Everett, Mass. earlier this year — the new Encore casino opened in the town, which is located just north of Boston, this summer, prompting other development projects — but the Revs are firmly focused for now on building in Boston proper.

    That could change in the future, but they won’t rush the stadium project. The Revs view the stadium as a 50-to-100 year decision. They aren’t going to compromise on location, even if they’re frustrated by how long the search for the perfect site has taken.


    Do you believe them?
     
  3. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  4. 2nd Mouse

    2nd Mouse Member+

    Apr 11, 2012
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    TOAzer, jaykoz3 and SccrDon repped this.
  5. Fighting Illini

    Fighting Illini Member+

    Feb 6, 2014
    Chicago
    Do I believe that if the stars magically aligned and they got an absolute can't miss no-brainer of a stadium deal that they would take yes for an answer?

    Yeah, I believe that.

    It ain't complicated. They are waiting on the rest of MLS to carry their water and make the monopoly on top level soccer in Greater Boston something that can command greater power and better deals in the future than they could get now.

    Ask Andrew Hauptman about the wisdom of that strategy. Work smarter, not harder.
     
  6. CMeszt

    CMeszt Member+

    Farewell Sweet Prince
    Jan 9, 2004
    Gentrification's Apex.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    There's a lesson to be learned from the Fire about jumping at the wrong stadium deal...but it's not Hauptman who you need to be looking at for that lesson.
     
  7. Fighting Illini

    Fighting Illini Member+

    Feb 6, 2014
    Chicago
    No I mean the wisdom of the strategy of doing nothing, sucking from the SUM teat, and waiting for the rising tide to lift your boat.

    Hauptman made nearly 10x his investment in 12 years as a grossly incompetent absentee.

    And he was a relative financial lightweight paying on a terrible lease deal. The Krafts have more money than God and the Revs are just a glorified concession stand in their revenue behemoth.

    The Kraft Group is brilliantly positioned with their investment in SUM. Just hire a team president for the Revs to do what he can on a fig leaf of a budget and watch the valuation grow on everyone else's work.

    The people that should be mad are the Peter Guber's and Arthur Blank's who are doing all the work and spending all the money to grow the value of these SUM slices and local monopolies.

    I think they were mad at Hauptman. The Krafts are O.G. though, it's a different story there.
     
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  8. Mateofelipe

    Mateofelipe Member+

    Mar 10, 2001
    Spokane, WA
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  9. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #9 Bill Archer, Dec 11, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
    I keep asking people what they think some money-bloated billionare hedge fund douche would pay for the MLS territorial rights to the greater Boston metro area.

    The bidding wouldnt even start under 500k and double that might very well be the walkaway sooner rather than later. Its gotta be tempting.
     
  10. Fighting Illini

    Fighting Illini Member+

    Feb 6, 2014
    Chicago
    Everyone has their number, but if Joe Mansueto bought the remainder of the Fire at a ~400MM valuation, I do think a billion for Boston is pretty far fetched.
     
  11. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Meg Whitman just paid $100 million for 20% of FC Kentucky.

    I'm not suggesting we're there yet but the way valuations are rocketing to the heavens I think its closer than logic and good sense might suggest.
     
  12. Pauncho

    Pauncho Member+

    Mar 2, 1999
    Bexley, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Every NFL, MLB, NBA and even NHL franchise is now valued at at least a billion dollars. Pro sports franchise ownership is still the prize toy of a very rich man in American culture. Put those two facts together and, even if the economics don't strictly support the valuations of MLS franchises, it still makes it's own sense.
     
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  13. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They just spent $35M on a training facility, that's not chump change. They're not building a stadium in Boston anytime in the near future. They control all of their expenses and revenues at the moment. They're finally spending on players and coaches/FO personnel. Their attendance will likely average more than 20K in 2020.

    Further, any prospective buyers would not only pay a pretty penny for the rights to operate the Revs and buy into SUM ($500M+ wouldn't come as a shock), but they'd also need to pay a pretty penny for a place to play in. Unless the Krafts give them a discount on rent to play at Gillette for the foreseeable future....
     
  14. CMeszt

    CMeszt Member+

    Farewell Sweet Prince
    Jan 9, 2004
    Gentrification's Apex.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    I'd really love to know what the cut/team is for SUM. It wouldn't exactly shock me if it's not covering the losses for a lot of the teams.
     
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  15. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well the TV deal is presumably.

    If the rest is split between the teams wouldn't it show up in their revenue?
     
  16. Fighting Illini

    Fighting Illini Member+

    Feb 6, 2014
    Chicago
    The franchise valuations tell you everything you need to know.
     
  17. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As I understand it, and I will gladly stand correction, Soccer United Marketing is an entirely separate legal entity. The owners all have e to buy shares in it but the money involved does not show up on the MLS team financials.

    Its essentially a slight of hand. SUM has to pay MLS royalties, just as if it was not headquartered literally down the hall from MLS.

    Of course SUM owns other rights as well, such as USSF games, FMF ( Mexico) games, some CONCACAF games and even CONMEBOL games for a while.

    It's a big bone of contention, as the players say that SUM income is MLS income and they should get a taste. MLS of course thinks otherwise.
     
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  18. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    On the Revs board we have gone over the whole new stadium / Kraft selling the team scenario for years. There are a lot of reasons why neither of these will ever happen.

    Let's start with the stadium in Boston or in the "urban core," meaning accessible by subway/tram, not bus lines. Any place like that with a piece of land big enough for a stadium is going to be really, really expensive. Kraft would have to compete with RE developers who want to do other things with a large parcel, and those guys will pay for the land as part of the cost of doing business. Kraft asked for a freebie many years ago and that just wasn't ever going to happen. The failed Olympic bid was probably the best shot, as a modular stadium could have been retro-fitted for a nice soccer stadium. But the Olympics would have been a disaster, so I'm glad that didn't happen, as much as I would have liked to see a stadium.

    But the real crux of the matter is why would Kraft spend $350 million or so to build a stadium when he already has one? Sure, without the Revs, they could have more events at Gillette, but really, how many big concerts can you have during the summer? And the HS football championships could be hosted at the new stadium, but then you get into Krafts 2 stadiums cannibalizing each other for a limited number of events.

    The day the Revs play a home league game somewhere other than Gillette is the day the Patriots build a new palace because Gillette is "obsolete."

    So my real beef is that until they hired Arena, the Krafts have put in zero effort to make the Revs relevant where they are. Sure, playing in a too-large soul-less concrete edifice in a suburban shopping mall sucks, but they could make it suck a tiny bit less with a little bit of effort. We'll see if any of that changes now that the on-filed side of the team seems to have taken a turn for the better.

    As for someone else buying the team from Kraft, why would he sell? He makes a modest profit from the Revs with no effort and a cheap payroll, even modest crowds draw foot traffic to the shopping mall, and no one holds him accountable for mediocrity. Again, that might change with Arena here, as he is the closest thing to a soccer version of Bellichick.

    Still, suppose someone like Henry or the guy who owns Roma and a % of the Celtics decided to buy the team. Unless they have a stadium plan up their sleeve and are ready to break ground now, the Revs would be in worse shape than they are now. Where would they play long term? I'm sure Kraft would allow them to play in Gillette for a "reasonable" rent. Remember when the MetroStars played in Giants Stadium for $300,000/game and no parking/concession revenue? That might be OK for a couple of years while the new place is being built, but not long term. There are a few college FB stadiums that might work, for the short term, but all have some serious drawbacks.

    Bottom line is that the cost of the team itself (and SUM shares) would be a lot, not to mention a new stadium, and with all that being spent, what is the ROI on that? Probably less favorable than what Kraft is raking in right now.

    I'm not big Kraft fan, but I understand why they are taking their current course of (in)action. The only hope at all is that with Arena in charge, he will install a certain sense of professionalism and demand that things be done "right." We have never, ever had anyone like that who could actually be an advocate for the Revs. Nicol to a certain extent was that for on-the-field issues (but even he couldn't get them to sign good players from outside the league), but he didn't have the big picture perspective of the organization as a whole.
     
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  19. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't see any reasoning where the players should gt a share of the FMF/CONCACAF/CONMEBOL money. Now the MLS money absolutely, and you could make a case for the USSF money too.
     
  20. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A case could be made that the players already are getting a piece of this money. Salaries have been steadily rising since 2010. They train in exponentially better and more professional environments then they did in 2010. American players are now being signed to TAM contracts. Where exactly did all of this money come from? The TV deal hasn't changed since 2015 and that amount is now divided among more teams now too.
     
  21. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think Garberbucks, i.e. the salary budget and allocation money, come from the MLS money pile, which is at least partially, maybe substantially, funded by SUM revenue. I don't have a problem with that.

    I think the salary budget plus TAM cost MLS $200 million in 2019. I'm not sure how much GAM is allocated.
     

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