WC 2018 Qualifier vs. Spain

Discussion in 'Italy: National Teams' started by sempreITALIA, Sep 22, 2016.

  1. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    You're just projecting, again, at this point.

    If you don't get it, its because you're too stupid to understand the simple, and overcomplicate things that don't make sense to you. It's a way to hide from the fact that you're generally clueless, and...like I said...almost everyone gets it but you.

    Your whole argument was already a weak one to begin with but let's reiterate the key points:

    - You claim Ventura changed nothing, no intent, no instruction, nothing
    - It was all personnel changes that caused the huge difference we saw between the games

    - When informed that the big personnel change was Jak for Monto, you go on to say that Monto wasn't exclusively defending when he got injured, further contradicting yourself and almost fully invalidating your argument.

    If the very same players were capable of playing a high tempo high pressing game vs Spain the first time, they were capable the second time. If your argument was that they sucked and didn't care the second time, you'd have won more points than saying that Ventura made these massive player changes when it's obvoious he didn't, but had the same approach as Conte down. He didn't, duh.

    To add insult to injury, the man himself said he approached the whole game wrong and that he would have instructed them as he did once they were down a goal; to MOVE FORWARD. I can't make this stuff up. It's just too obvious.

    When using essentially the same cast, and admitting getting the approach wrong, he's basically told you everything you need to know.

    Yet you persist in stating that the approach was correct because to your uninformed eyes you see

    3

    5

    2

    On one hand you assume you have some extraordinary insight into the game, yet on the other you
    see 352 and think 352 = 352 = 352 no matter what, right? Automatically assuming that all 352's function the same.

    Newsflash; they don't. And it's obvious when you get your head out of the place where you think you have some magical insight into the game and try to over complicate everything.

    At least Chooch knows when to give up. You don't.

    I didn't blame him, you did. You said it was the personnel changes that caused Italy to be shit in this game vs Spain, whereas they were in control of the last. Montolivo was the big change, besides Romagnoli for Chiellini. Since that caused no significant change tactically, then you're saying that MontNoLibido was to blame for the limp dick approach.

    I already said, you might be right on that one.

    Oh and you forgot to say he's world class.
     
  2. totti fan

    totti fan Member+

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Country:
    Italy
    The Montolivo & Parolo pairing was to blame. Swap one of those out for a Jak player and you've got the same personnel. Ventura was asking Montolivo to play as a Jak (ie to maintain continuity with Contes approach) hence why he was getting forward. No contradictions in my positions there. But that's not his natural position/style so it didn't work out in the time he was on the field.

    Suggesting that the tactic was to sit back just does not make any sense. It may have looked that way to you and other small children but it's a pretty lazy way to look at things.
     
  3. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    tsdr

    in case you're wondering; too-stupid-didnt-read.
     
  4. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    In your mind it's not possible for Ventura to give overly defensive instructions, but it is for him to try and get a slow and weak player like Montolivo to run endlessly up and down the wing with the intenisty and grit that a Jakerini brings, and you want people take you seriously?

    You'd put faith in a coach that would be so clueless to ask Montolivo to do something he's not capable of?
    You actually imagine that Ventura is that dumb?

    No, dude, that's you projecting your stupid ideas onto the coach and imagining he'd do something so unbelievably ridiculous.

    You are literally out of your mind!

    This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about when I say you are so clueless that you miss the simple stuff, and over complicate the rest.

    Honestly, is getting a response out of people more important than looking stupid while doing it?


    ... When I said:

    I didn't think you'd be capable. But you've finally proven me wrong.

    and

    [​IMG]

    Can you please make up your mind? lol

    And can I get a "Monto is world class" now, or what?
     
  5. totti fan

    totti fan Member+

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Country:
    Italy
    “We are very disappointed for Riccardo, because he was in fine form,” Coach Montella told Milannews.it.

    “He is very important for us, almost irreplaceable. It’ll be a big loss both on a technical and psychological level. We are all by his side.

    “Montolivo is a very important person in the locker room, so yesterday there was a sense of great sadness at Milanello when we heard the news."
     
    Rosay repped this.
  6. totti fan

    totti fan Member+

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Country:
    Italy
    Montolivo didn't get your Ventura memo. He wasn't playing overly defensive. He was injured in an offensive position. You have failed to explain why.

    And btw Ventura clearly stated in the past that he's not changing things up yet. For the moment at least he's continuing on with Conte's approach.
     
  7. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    #282 Calcio Pauly, Oct 9, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2016
    Sockyfan, give up dude. You're the one who said it was personnel changes that caused the shitty play, which means you were pointing the finger at MontNoLibido, that was, until you realized he was the only personnel change. Talk about not being informed, or having watched the game, at all. Keep digging...

    :laugh:

    ...Keep backtracking.

    And BTW you still fail to understand the difference between a lineup and instructions on how to play within the lineup. It doesn't surprise me.
     
  8. nesta-maldini

    nesta-maldini New Member

    Jun 22, 2016
    Club:
    AC Milan
    1. monty was a sack of shit out there. Would rather have Kevin Lasanga out there

    2. monty for giak was a change, sure. This was not the only reason we looked terrible for 70 minutes. Lets start with graziano pelle. Had what I think was his worst game in an azzurri shirt. Not winning his balls, loose fouls out of position. Next up Eder! Also a pylon out there. Might as well of had luca toni. Next black hole Marc Parolo. Also arguably his worst game as an azzurri. Could not link up a pass if his life depended on it. Many problems/issues for a team that was basically trying to follow Conte mold

    3. There very many positives from this game. Monty tore his ACL! Pelle was a complete @#$(@) and got sent home. Roman is a for real defender. And lastly Belotti!!! I have been screaming for this guy for a long time. He can lead the line. Totti Fan I hate to call you out, but if you look in other threads you were not as open to Belotti. In fact you wanted pavoletti over him. Anyways, this guy was a catalyst. Very excited to see him start tomorrow.

    4. Going forward..... Veratti will become integral to this team. I also cant wait for benassi to get his chance. The best is yet to come
     
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  9. totti fan

    totti fan Member+

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Country:
    Italy
    What's more likely that Ventura would try to emulate Conte's successful approach at Euro 2016 with the players at his disposal OR that he would sit back and invite pressure from one of the strongest possession based international teams in history.

    The answer's not very difficult if you think about it.
     
  10. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    You still haven't explained why Ventura would tell Montolivo to run up and down the wing, when he wasn't a winger, yet. Why?
     
  11. totti fan

    totti fan Member+

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Country:
    Italy
    Pavoletti is injured. Anyway never said Pavoletti > Belotti. Just was the first one to mention his name before a few others jumped on board. I hope Belotti works out, its always good to have options.

    Lot of predictions in your post. Lets see how they work out.
     
  12. totti fan

    totti fan Member+

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Country:
    Italy
    why was he defending at the touchline? And if he didn't run there how did he get there?
     
  13. nesta-maldini

    nesta-maldini New Member

    Jun 22, 2016
    Club:
    AC Milan
    i cant guarantee anything... But we all want whats best for the azzurri. The Pelle Eder Combo has expired in my mind. They had their chance, lets give these in form younger players who are not in China/having a shitty season at Inter a chance and see what they can do.
     
  14. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    #289 Calcio Pauly, Oct 9, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2016
    Like I said, there aren't too many people out there, or in this thread, that can completely contradict themselves in a matter of minutes like you can. Way to outdo yourself there buds.
     
  15. totti fan

    totti fan Member+

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Country:
    Italy
    Monty was lost out there I've said that many times. You can't swap Jack for Monty against Spain and expect the same result.
    I agree that there is a strong chance Pelle is finished.
    But I strongly disagree on Eder. He's been ok at Inter too btw. Just b.c he's not scoring...
    People are saying Insigne is struggling b.c he's not scoring. That's nonsense.
     
  16. totti fan

    totti fan Member+

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Country:
    Italy
    3 year olds sarcasm detector as well
     
  17. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Now you're just running around in circles like a chicken with it's head cut off.

    Man, if you were good at anything, your persistency would be a major asset.

    Back to one of my questions that you keep dodging, answer me this, how clueless do you have to be to not see that Ventura actually did NOT emulate Conte's approach? Form yes, approach not so much as he himself admitted he failed at. There's a difference dude. Respect for his humility and honesty. How about you emulate that, for once?

    Again, your simplistic evaluation is something a child could get over if it was explained to them just once. Just because the lineup is 352, doesn't mean the players had the same instructions on how to carry out their roles. This isn't a video game dude. How many times do you have to be educated on this? Seems like a lot. It's excessive.

    Can I get a Monto is world class now?
     
  18. totti fan

    totti fan Member+

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Country:
    Italy
    You're starting to do that thing again where you repeat the things I say to you, back to me.

    Think for yourself, can the childish emotional outbursts and maybe we can have a conversation. On second thoughts I've wasted enough time I'll leave you to it.
     
  19. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Your routine is the same time and time again. You get called out, so you start insulting others, then you cry like a child would, take your ball and go home when no one bites at your lame childish bait.

    So no Montolivo is world class then? Not even Monto has a cool hair do? Nada?

    I'll leave you with this, please try watching the game tomorrow? You might miss a lot of what happens, but at least there'll be a reference point for you this time.
     
  20. gumbacicc

    gumbacicc Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    USA
    He won me over at the Euros. He was the hardest-working player on the pitch and showed some quality. In the days of an Italian NT where guys like Pelle and Immobile are being considered for the NT, there is no reason why Eder can't play for this side. It's not as if Eder is keeping Baggio, Del Piero or Zola on the bench.
     
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  21. Italy-Azzurri-Fan

    Nov 15, 2014
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Country:
    Italy
    There are rumors that Bernardeschi might be starting. Lets hope so, as I really like Bernardeschi. I have been waiting to see this team for a year now with Bernardeschi, Belotti, Berardi, Verratti, and maybe Gabbiadini.
     
    Rosay repped this.
  22. Rosay

    Rosay Member+

    May 7, 2014
    Club:
    AC Milan
    I know right. Eder, Giaccherini, Montolivo all get too much hate. There is a reason why they continually get called up to the Azzurri. They offer different roles and are good at their respective roles
     
  23. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Agreed on 2 of 3, that last one baffles me as there really hasn't been one solid good reason that I can figure out for his inclusion in the latest rounds and especially so after the team played so well without him this past summer, but Italian coaches and 'experienced' players are not something new to me.
     
  24. Italy-Azzurri-Fan

    Nov 15, 2014
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Country:
    Italy
    Giacherinni is really underrated. He has always done well every time he played for us. Do you not remember he was very key in the 2013 Confederations Cup, and then again in Euro 2016 was one of our best players. I don't get the hate for him, and he was never bad at all, at least when he played for the Azzurri.

    I can understand Eder a bit, however I think he gets too much hate a little. It's not that hate him specifically, but I think we have better players, and he is the kind of player we expect to be starting for a team like Slovakia or Czech Republic, not ITALIA. We should have better quality players on our team, and we do.

    Montolivo can be hated all he wants. He has been horrible recently. The friendly that Germany beat us 4-1 was an embarrassment. He was slowing us down against Spain greatly a few days ago. He is too old. I know DDR is older but he is a much better player overall and was world class in his day.
     
  25. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    But Montolivo is so versatile and he has a feathered hair do which means he's aerodynamic.
     
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