WC 2018 Qualifier vs. Spain

Discussion in 'Italy: National Teams' started by sempreITALIA, Sep 22, 2016.

  1. totti fan

    totti fan Member+

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Country:
    Italy
    Italy was not pegged back by choice it was by Spanish design. Italian selections did not help (overly defensive, lack of mobility).
     
  2. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    No actually Ventura had them sit back. You haven't watched the game yet, and the blogs you followed clearly haven't quoted Ventura yet either. After the goal they went forward. It's a pretty simple observation.
     
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  3. totti fan

    totti fan Member+

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Country:
    Italy
    Agree to disagree. Maybe you can fish out a new quote for your sig.
     
  4. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Look, he admits he got it wrong, which was clear for anyone watching. You should do the same.

    The fact remains that Spain dominated the first half with 72 per cent possession and Ventura admits he got the approach wrong.

    “Spain’s attitude, and our own anxiety, forced us to change our approach. It was necessary to change at half-time and we did change.

    “This all adds to our experience, including mine, because going back I’d have started the game differently. The spirit is extremely positive and Andrea Barzagli is an example of that.”


    “Spain have always been considered favourites, but this match told us something else. We realised that if we want to, we can. If we push hard (ie; how Conte had them play the 352), much harder than we did tonight, then we can be protagonists.


    It's really not that hard to figure out.


    I like my sig, and it's accurate, you know it :) Just like the quotes above are. Get up to date.
    Maybe you should make a new sock puppet to agree with you? :p
     
  5. totti fan

    totti fan Member+

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Country:
    Italy
    So the strategy was to sit back, defend and invite pressure for the first 45mins?
     
  6. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    So Ventura stating he got it wrong, is lying?

    Another conspiracy?

    “If I was to go back in time to before that match, I’d certainly change a few things,” confessed the Coach in his Press conference.

    Having said that, despite everything we only allowed two shots on target (yeah, no, you're right, he wasn't pointing out a positive of an overly defensive approach...carry on) Spain also should’ve had two players sent off.

    “Verratti is a treasure of Italian football. If there are no nasty surprises overnight, then he will play tomorrow. He wasn’t in the right condition to play against Spain.
     
  7. totti fan

    totti fan Member+

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Country:
    Italy
    Like I said originally he got the mix wrong. The intent was there just not the right personnel.

    The Bonaventura and Immobile subs were significant changes (more mobile players then those who were replaced) as they added more run and press. Incidentally two players not used a lot by Conte.
     
  8. thorus

    thorus Member

    Feb 28, 2016
    Club:
    --other--

    Yes, and Diego Costa is a complete douche (pardon my French:cool:)

    Also, the yellow on Bonaventura was a BS call by the ref.
     
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  9. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    #259 Calcio Pauly, Oct 8, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2016
    Who cares if Conte didn't use Bonaventura and Immobile when his team DID run and press. Again, a matter of instruction.

    And What intent?
    When you have your team sit back, they sit back. It's simple.
    When instructed to go forward, they did.

    It's really not that hard.

    On Personnel. Wow, look at these wholesale changes....

    vs Spain now

    [​IMG]

    vs Spain in June

    [​IMG]


    As for not the right personnel, yeah, aside from injured Chiellini being replaced by Romagnoli who performed well, there was one big change from the June lineup: Montnolibido in and no Jakerini. Parolo occupied the space by Jak and Monto took Parolo's.

    No big surprise we looked better after Montnolibido went off. So basically you're saying that one major change MontNoLibido in and Jak out (between the two lineups) had completely made the intent go limp?

    And that Ventura has no blame for not having them ready like Conte did, in which they did press and go forward?

    Hmmm, maybe you're onto something....for yourself....re; MontNoLibido sucks.

    Here's something to consider, Spain hadn't won a single tackle in the game by the 26th minute into it, back in the June. In the game the other day there was hardly any pressure on them for the first 45minutes. Like I said earlier, it's more than just lining up a similar formation, it's how to carry out your position that the players had

    Tottifan, here's a big secret...watch games before commenting.
    Posting a summation of a variety of blogs you read isn't cutting it.

    I think it took a fair amount of honesty and courage from Ventura to admit he got it wrong, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. At least he doesn't make excuses, or puts a spin on being wrong, like some people *cough-cough* in here.

    Let's see how he corrects things in the next game.


    Edit: I'm amazed that Immobile gets all this praise for running at a tired Spanish defense, when Jak does the exact same, with more precision, and finishes better (even while not his primary role) yet he's complained about more than Eder when he gets a game. It's mind boggling.
     
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  10. totti fan

    totti fan Member+

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Country:
    Italy
    Well 1st of all Candreva was injured so I doubt Conte would have preferred Florenzi where Ventura clearly did.

    But that's beside the point that you're making which is that the line-ups were essentially the same:

    I do like Montolivo but he wasn't used well. I said as much in my in my initial summary:
    I'd leave DDR there but take only one of Parolo and Monty and replace with a running CM.

    Monty for Giakk made a significant difference. Giakk and Monty are 2 completely different players and how they are deployed fundamentally changes the way a side plays.

    When you say he told them to sit back in the 1st half what do you mean? Are you suggesting they were instructed to defend and not push forward, not press. Why then were they trying so often to dangerously play it out of the back. If they were bunkering as you are saying they would have just hoofed it forward. They were stuck because the only player who could run at opposition players in the front half was Eder.
     
  11. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Let's stick to reality. In both games Florenzi played. There was only one major change, MontNoLibido in, Jak out. That alone cannot account for the change in intent where you see an -on- Italy who press and run, to one that sits back, unless what you're saying is that MontNoLibido sucks so much that he sucks the life out of his teammates, in which case, you might be onto something and it could be one of the most insightful things I've read from you in a long time.
     
  12. totti fan

    totti fan Member+

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Country:
    Italy
    There was no change in intent.
    Do you have a more sophisticated way to describe their first half beyond they were instructed to sit back?
    3rd time I'm asking btw.

    Just because they were trapped in their own half does not mean they wanted to sit back and defend for 45 mins.
     
  13. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Against every single piece of evidence presented, you persist.
    What, no more talking about "personnel" changes?

    Then you're saying that MontNoLibido sucks the life out of his teammates, and that Ventura is lying about getting it wrong, or you're just stupid.

    That stupid rationalization works in reverse too.

    Do you really think it's not obvious to anyone who watches the game, that you don't? Because if you did, some of the things you say would be equivalent to Koala speed brain processing, ie; ********ing slow.

    From your Insigne is keeping Mertens out of the lineup gaffe, to this intent bullshit, in which one major change in personnel was made, to the variety of stupid things you've said in the past (see my sig ;) ). Have you ever considered just sitting back and watching the game first, instead of parroting wrong information into some failed never-before-heard of insight?
     
  14. totti fan

    totti fan Member+

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Country:
    Italy
    I guess you won't be answering my question then.
    Talking to you reminds me of conversations I have with people who watch sports socially and have no clue who say things like "Why don't they just get the ball forward?"
     
  15. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    There's only so much one can tolerate the significant quantity of bullshit you spew before outright calling you out on it.

    I know you like the bombastic bullshit approach to almost everything, but a "more sophisticated way" of describing "sit back and defend", do you ********ing listen to yourself sometimes?

    Time to pull out the socks Sockyfan.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    to quote you:
    I answered your question, dummy, there is no "sophisticated" way to describe "sit back and defend" dumb dumb. Did you miss it? You act like you have some extraordinary insight into the game, games which you clearly don't watch and want to make something out of them that don't exist, coupled with your sock puppetry and conspiracy theories as to why some people are not in lineups, where almost everyone in a forum calls you out on your pseudo observations.

    Do you know what a psychologist might diagnose you with, besides stupid and a wanna-be soccer pundit?
     
  17. totti fan

    totti fan Member+

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Country:
    Italy
    You could go this route or you could just answer the question I'm asking. You actually made a good point with the similarity b.w the line-ups.
     
  18. totti fan

    totti fan Member+

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Country:
    Italy
    Did Montolivo not get the memo? Didn't look like he was sitting back and defending when he got injured.
     
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  19. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    So now you're backtracking on the it-was-a-personnel-change theory of yours? Go figure huh? :coffee:

    Now, onto more important things since discussing anything with you on a game you didn't see is basically an act of stupidty in itself.


    Where's your partner?
    Yeah, the sophisticated one....
    Just answer my question?

    Answer me?

    Where is he?

    Where?

    [​IMG]
     
  20. totti fan

    totti fan Member+

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Country:
    Italy
    If you asked a 3 year old to sit down and watch the game their "analysis" would be similar to yours.
    In the first half they "sat back and defended". In the second half they "attacked".

    You need to think some.
     
  21. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    You haven't fooled anyone, dumb dumb.

    You weren't even smart enough to look at the lineups between the two games to realize that essentially only one person changed before spouting off your whole "but he changed major components of the lineup" argument.

    Wake up buttercup. Everyone see's right through you.
     
  22. totti fan

    totti fan Member+

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Country:
    Italy
    Jak for Monty is a major change
     
  23. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Oh really? One that causes a 352 that presses high and doesn't sit back to one that sits back?

    So let's see, the difference in personnel between the game against Spain in June and the one last week was....the insertion Montolivo to the exclusion of Jakerini.... so he got the "mix" wrong did he?

    Yet Montolivo wasn't defending exlusively...
    [​IMG]

    Can you please top that one and say something even more stupid and contradictory?

    lol
     
  24. totti fan

    totti fan Member+

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Country:
    Italy
    you're just babbling incoherently at this point.

    As a CM what was Montolivo doing up forward if he was instructed to in your words "sit back"?
     
  25. totti fan

    totti fan Member+

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Country:
    Italy
    I'm not a big fan of giving players different roles in the NT to that which they fill for club. How would a DDR or a Pirlo do if they were played out of position and asked to fill the role of a Giak. Not good. Harsh to blame Monty because he is considered so versatile.
     
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