Post-match: WC 2014: Brasil x Croácia, 12 de Junho de 2014 [R]

Discussion in 'Brazil' started by Century's Best, May 7, 2014.

  1. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    TS jumped off the cross when it could have been blocked and DL whiffed on the ball....
     
  2. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    You are missing the middle third of the pitch. That's where Paulinho failed. The flanks were for Oscar and Hulk but the middle was for Paulinho. If you are dropping your volantes and not pushing one of them up till the final third of the pitch, you are basically bunkering. We weren't doing that. We needed to win the ball higher up the pitch, not our final third.
     
  3. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    I'm just pulling your chain, but really.. he could have cut that cross =D
    Problem is that Alves and Marcelo were pressuring the wings, you can't ask for both of your volantes to press the middle when you have your wings going up that much.

    This is not a regular defensive block team, Paulinho and Luiz have to stay back further than we would like because they cover our wingers, even when we had ball possession our last man back, behind the defenders, were Luiz or Paulinho. I saw Luiz deeper than the defenders more than once, with Paulinho coming back and fourth trying to pull somebody away from the bunker, just didn't happen.

    Alves and Marcelo's qualities is what makes Paulinho and Luiz play the way they do.
     
  4. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    I agree with most of your post, but a few things:

    2. Luiz kept passing the ball out of defense into pockets of space - often where there were no yellow shirts.

    5. I think his performance wasn't great, but is overstated because Croatia's midfield is BY FAR its strongest area of the pitch. Rakitic and Modric are really good players.

    8. Not Luiz! Oscar or Neymar.

    9. Again, I thought the positioning was fine. But he didn't hold on to almost any shots!
     
  5. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Luiz Gustavo's role allows the CBs to cover the flanks in our own third, depending on which side of the field the ball is. Paulinho mans the middle. The wingers (Oscar and Hulk) are supposed to drop back and cover the flanks higher up. Hulk was non-existent.
     
  6. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    2. Both our CBs have issues with pushing the ball into space where there are no yellow shirts. And the worst part about it is they are normally not under pressure.

    5. Normally, I'd agree (and yes, Croatia's CM is strong), but this has been Achilles's heel of ours for 4 years. Paulinho was never known for his distribution. He's a bit like Ramires, who carries the ball out of defense with a run and opens up space for a creative player to receive the ball. I think Fernandinho is better both ways than Paulinho -- he's a better ball winner and has better passing ability. Fernandinho's natural role is that 2nd DM, not the role he plays for City.

    8. I haven't seen Oscar and Neymar takes FKs from that range. I would have gambled on Neymar taking it over Alves though.

    9. Well, how many real opportunities did he have to hold a shot? Just the Modric one IMO.
     
  7. Redshift

    Redshift Member+

    Dec 14, 2004
    Los Angeles, CA
    Club:
    Corinthians Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    People are understandably pissed that bad officiating tipped the balance in a competitive contest. For neutrals, if not for us, Marcelo's own goal set up a great drama--the kind of drama that makes the WC so compelling. Nishimura ruined it.

    Recall also that the opening game is pretty high profile, even if it doesn't typically produce the best football. It will be nice to see actual ratings numbers, but I'd expect that it is more watched than any game except (maybe) the semis and the final. And it was the only match played yesterday.

    With that background, I don't find the negative reaction at all surprising. Brazil are the consensus favorites and the hosts, so everybody wants to chime in when they stumble--especially people who would love to see the Selecao fail. This kind of sh*t-talking is normal. Gotta' just take it and brush it off. If they play better and the officiating doesn't prove to be a factor in the next match, I don't think there will be any significant lasting reputational impact. Except maybe to Nishimura--and we want that.
     
  8. Emperor Adriano

    Emperor Adriano Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Utica NY (the refugee city)
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Why do you care so much? I don't see how luck and a bad call are tarnishing Brazil's image. You should look at the protests if you want to go in that direction-regardless Brazil is changing. I know you want the carnaval stereotype on tv but Brazilians really don't want to be known for that imo. Like I said right after 3 or 4 posters were feeling "guilty" about the calls it is pathetic to worry about what other people think, especially since I knew what i'd be reading and hearing all week. I'm all for being a sportsmen and wanting a fair match but I want the selecao to win period. Go read some Brazilian memes everyone is having a really good time with it.
     
  9. IVO !

    IVO ! Member

    Feb 25, 2009
    RIO AND CHICAGO
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Fuk him.
     
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  10. KluivertsBoots

    Jun 16, 2009
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would dispute this point. I thought Brazil started the second half devoid of the energy you would have expected from them having equalized. No player controlled play for Brazil. Neymar was the closest to assuming this role, but only nominal at best.

    Fred's dive was an act of desperation at a point in the match in which Croatia's midfield was taking over. Modric was rapidly growing in influence after an anonymous first half, and Brazil did not look near a goal when that happened.

    Oscar supplied three genuine chances (through ball to Paulinho, cross to Luiz, winning ball back and lay off to Neymar), but was not orchestrating play at all outside of those individual moments. I had expected he and Neymar to switch more often, and generate a more dynamic attack.

    Overall, I thought Croatia deserved a point but nothing more with Mandzukic on the bench. Jelavic was terrible as his replacement.

    My feeling is that Brazil will be OK until the quarters, and then all bets are off. If they see a dominant midfield like France in the quarters with a hot finisher, they will be in big trouble.
     
  11. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Fix is in... Cameroon to win the WC.
     
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  12. Emperor Adriano

    Emperor Adriano Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Utica NY (the refugee city)
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I'm surprised I haven't heard anyone on this board calling for Julio Cesar to be benched.
     
  13. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    A potential little misunderstanding here, that I'd like to clarify: this is not what *I'm* saying. I've been defending Brazil in all my posts, both from the organizational side and the football side. I'm regretting what other people are saying, that's all.
     
  14. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Good point, a perfectly good Mexican goal was wrongly disallowed, in another refereeing mistake. These things happen. When they favor Brazil people cry conspiracy theory; when they favor Cameroon, they don't. Double standard. Brazil haters just want to hate.
     
  15. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Probably because we know it won't happen. It's very rare for goalies to be benched in a WC. England is probably the exception with their paranoia.
     
  16. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    I always thought that Victor is better than JC and I don't understand Felipao's obsession with JC.
     
  17. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Eh, I don't know about that. Jefferson would be the choice to overtake him. A shame we don't have Diego Alves on the team...
     
  18. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Jefferson is by far the best Brazilian GK... but he's black.. no joke
     
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  19. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    #344 Brasitusa, Jun 13, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2014
    Second disallowed goal for Mexico. According to the commentators, correct call because the ball got deflected and once it did, the Mexican player was indeed off-side. It was deflected by Cameroon; as of July 1, 2013, the offside rule got changed and now this is indeed an off-side situation, so the refs were right about this one.
     
  20. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Did you see what Victor did throughout Atletico Mineiro's winning Libertadores campaign last season? I followed all games (rooting against Atletico since I support Cruzeiro) and he had some unbelievable saves, including PKs. It was just uncanny, nothing would get past him. I haven't followed him a lot after that (just the odd game here and there) but if he hasn't suffered a significant drop in form, then he is still very good.

    About the race part, you can't be serious. Many Brazilian players are black or mixed race. If Felipao based his decisions on race, he'd had to change most players on his roster.
     
  21. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Hey, equivalent foul that yesterday deserved a yellow card against Neymar, and this time didn't. The fix is in, Mexico to win the WC. The refs in purpose tried to hurt Neymar!

    So, the bottom line is that refereeing has been atrocious across the board as early as in the first two games, so, no need for conspiracy theories. Something tells me that refereeing in this Cup will be a fiasco.
     
  22. Kaka10725

    Kaka10725 Member+

    Jun 1, 2007
    Scolari IMO was wrong for guaranteeing JC a spot so early. He was comfortable sitting on the QPR bench collecting a check.
     
  23. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    @Guigs - Juninho Pernambucano is commenting on this game on Globo...
     
  24. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    France a have dominant midfield? LOL, what?
     
  25. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    how's he doing? cliche maniac like most commentators or actually giving good takes?
     

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