So I have watched this disaster for 2 years now. Last year my daughter displaced the starting varsity keeper - as a freshmen. Her father was so pissed that he threatened to pull her - eventually doing so and then went out to all the top clubs looking to get her on a Preimership or ECNL Team. Of course none of the DOC's at those clubs made any promises so this year, daddy and daughter came back. This year - before try outs, he lobbied the coaches to keep my kid down to JV - coaches told my kid she would play both but that since crybaby was now a Junior she would get more play time. In comes an even better keeper this year (freshmen) than my daughter - and she is told the same thing. So two keepers who have worked their butts off for years are relegated to the bench because they will get their time when they are older - gotta cater to the Juniors and Seniors - even though they are no where near as good. Okay - I am not mad really. My daughter elected to do track which I think is good because it also allows her to stay with her club which is what I wanted all along. My question however is, what is the point of High School soccer for a fresh/soph who is a solid player when the coaches favor juniors/seniors because of age? I've seen that so often over the last 2 seasons while watching some of the kids I coached from u4-u11 as well as some of the kids from my daughters club team play - all on Varsity and all for the last two years have had the same thing happen to them. So many games were so completely ugly - no fluidity to play at all because there was no decent players or leaders on the field. Coaches favoring the older players who have so many bad habits which preclude the teams from getting any traction against poor performing opponents. I am struggling hard to understand the value of high school soccer - at least in my area. Mind you - all the Fresh/Soph players which I feel are better live in the area but have been part of clubs well outside the area altogether.
Speaking only in generality, I can understand why a high school coach might not want to tell a Junior player their soccer career is basically over in favor of a freshmen player… especially if the talent gap is reasonable narrow and subjective…I am not sure most High School soccer programs need or want to be that brutal about player management… I would think an underclassmen would have to be really, really, really special to knock an upperclassmen out of their position/off the team…anything less than that, I can understand why a coach would tend to favor the upperclassman…
I agree... My argument would be to leave the talented fresh/soph on the JV team to get more play time then. 3 of the 4 are talented enough for sure. 4 of 5 is you included my daughter but as I said - she chose track in order to stay with her club. I guess my point is on about the value of high school soccer as a fresh/soph in these situations? The kids parents are confused and annoyed at it - but they come (we) come from a club setting where we let the coach - coach and leave it at that. It's confusing for them - bad play on the field, using players who are quite a ways behind there kids... I get it completely. I told them they would be better off playing with the club for another year and go back as juniors when they will get more play time.
Honestly, it's HS soccer. It's not about development, it's not about playing good soccer. There's a social aspect, and a traditional school-spirit component. It is what it is. My son played HS soccer as a freshman and as a sophomore; as a Junior he's chosen to skip it. Parents like that older child's father shouldn't be involved in these things; but parents of kids who are "serious" club players like you and I shouldn't expect the HS game to necessarily be geared to furthering the development of our kids, either. The HS game has different aims and different purposes.
What playing time/game opportunities do they (HS girls) get a the club level during the Spring? Pardon my ignorance (my son is just in 6th grade), but I thought once you hit high school (outside of DA, which I don’t think was are talking about), there was little opportunity for club play in the Fall for boys or the Spring for girls….if true (?), might as well play for your high school team…
We have a Top Talent program - as it is called that basically comprises of ECNL and NPL players. 3 practices per week - keepers can still go to keeper training and 3-4 tourneys/college combines with other large clubs (SLSG for example). Our state high school regs preclude and club training of any kind for any sport. Only exception is private training.
Agree... My daughter is at the NPL level so I felt the social aspect was a better bet for her for high school. The other players are NPL level as well but if they are not playing because they are young - and we all know that training is - well terrible to "Meh" compared to where we are at, then what's the point? I think the parents are thinking this was as well.
Yeah I forget, big city Chicago… I guess in a large metro area like that, there would still be enough players to make it viable/worth it…downstate, in my neck of the woods, I just can’t see it being a very practical option, as the majority of club players (fresh/soph) do end up playing HS soccer at some level…
The social aspect of school soccer is really the key. For my son, it was good to find his niche and establish some sort of identity in a large school. I'll also add that, in a way, playing HS and Middle-school soccer* actually DID have a long-term development benefit; our son made a lot of friends in our area who like playing soccer. That led to a lot of pickup games at parks, unused fields, and indoor facilities--i.e., the "street soccer" that the American youth player is so often deprived of. Club soccer, at least around here, recruits from a larger area than an immediate neighborhood, so the opportunities to hang out and play pickup/street soccer with your club teammates is limited to non-existent. But thanks to playing MS soccer in particular, my son got to know a lot of kids in the area who play for fun, often with older brothers, family members, etc. *Did your daughter do Middle School soccer? Makes HS look like La Liga.
We are out in the sticks - NW burbs - hour from Chicago - hour from Rockford. Clubs in our imediate area are terrible - which accounts for the level of players on the field. So you can imagine how a parent feels when their NPL kid is on the bench because a "C" level league player is older. Well... IMO their kid should not have been there in the first place but...
She did not. However I will encourage my u9 to do it when she gets in Jr High. I want her to experience that because the odds are - if she stays in soccer, she'll never play in High School. For that reason I am also getting her into basketball - as I think being in a sport in High School is a great experience.
I think this is like explaining the punch line to a joke…if I have to explain it, you’ll probably never get it…(although bigredfutbol as been doing a very good job of it)... In my brutal and probably a bit unfair opinion, parents who are so quick to brush off High Schools soccer have probably been single-mindedly chasing the “scholarship” since their kid first starting dribbling the ball…so of course, they don't see any value it it...
Yes, I can just image the horror they must feel…sorry, I find it very hard to be very sympathetic to these "club" parents you keep depicting….
I agree - which is why I added the last comment. But to their defense - these are great parents - very low key, keeping it to themselves. We had discussions in the parking lot - no complaints, just some confusion as they are not certain what or how the process works at this level. It is a different world. There are parents whose kids played rec and whose kids played low level travel - or higher level with a small club in just state leagues that say some really odd things.
I am sure they are nice people…but no offense, but did these people never go to high school or did they forget how it works? I really don’t know how they can be this honestly confused… Yes, we do…
I think you are missing the fact that there were very few travel sports back in 80's. We only had three travel teams that I could recall - and they were all an hour (at least) away. Green/White, Pegasus, Schwaben. I don't think there was travel basketball, volleyball even back then - at least no where near us. So how would they know?
That still doesn’t change the fundamental dynamics of high school sports…this idea that the majority of the varsity squad, regardless of sport, regardless of school, will generally and routinely be made up of Junior and Seniors should not be a foreign concept to anyone…but the way you talk, I don’t get the sense these parents grasp that initial and fundamental starting point…so either a) these parents are completely out of touch or b) they arrogantly thought the traditions and “rules” of High School didn’t apply to their kids….
These parents have had their players in competitive soccer for 10 + years and none of them (parents) played the sport of soccer as kids. Comp programs never existed when they were in high school so whether they are wrong or right for thinking how they do is not a sign of arrogance. Maybe they are out of touch based on the past 10+ years however but I would also mention that coaches will say anything to get these players - regardless of what age they are. Clubs do this as well. Both are guilty of promising play time and so on and I can speak from first hand that this can be the case. However in a club environment - work ethic and skill will put you in the game and move you to a top team. What they are seeing is that does not matter. So not only is it foreign - but doesn't make much sense at all. I know a player my daughter grew up with who is one of the top u16 keepers in the nation. She elected to not play High School and was hastled by the coach every time he came across her. It got to the point that the high school players were antagonizing her as well. Short of private schools - where tenure is not in play, most High School coaches leave a lot to be desired because they are teachers first and coaches second - a means to collect an extra $6000.00 per year.
It doesn’t make sense because they can’t see pass their own kid and their 10+ year investment… Varsity coaches are typically responsible for building and maintaining a healthy FOUR year program…it may be a terrible program, but it is their program…and to that end, one way they build and maintain a stable program by having the majority of their players progress through the ranks as they age…freshmen, JV, Varsity…having too many freshmen or underclassmen on the varsity squad could very well undermined the long term success of the program…and is a risk many Varsity coaches, I would guess, are adverse to take… Club players/club parents need to understand HS is not just an extension of Club…but an entirely separate program; a program they have to want to be a part of, to earn their strips, show their commitment, and pay their dues…(dues that don’t involve writing a big fat check)….
They understand that it's different but why bring the players up if you don't play them? Would they not be better on JV where they could get more time - bring them up occasionally? This is happening at 3 high schools so it's not just one instance... I fully understand the process - I believe they do as well *now* - after 5 games. They believe that earning their stripes means going to practice - trying their hardest and being leaders. WHAT THEY SEE is that none of that matters if there is a Junior/Senior on the team who plays their position(s). Sorry you fail to get this but that's what these girls see - as well as their parents. So yeah - I agree, it's different - better? Aboslutly not for them. Hopefully they will pull their players (who are already frustrated) and put them in a proper environment where they can continue to grow. These kids are good students - in other sports so the impact will be little if nothing at all. BTW it sounds like you have a chip against clubs. I base this on past conversations and comments you have made here - "(dues that don’t involve writing a big fat check)…" These parents are not on about that but you seem convinced that they are and that they are a whiny bunch. Again - this is a quite group of parents. Never have coached on the sideline - very positive towards the kids and all of them have no exaggerated expectations about the ability of their players.
Well your experience is a disservice to you on this account. Parents what their kids to enjoy the time and have fun. If there not they can finish an play something else next spring - or go back to club soccer. I understand that 99% of parents probably fall into your generalization but the club we are in is about individual development - not winning... Even at this age. So the majority of parents are looking at whether their players (1) Are having fun (2) Have a passion for the sport (3) Not being limited from participating in other activities. At the DA and ECNL level - yes that perspective may change. But below that, college scholarships are slim to none and most of these girls will simply walk on.
I really can’t specially answer these kind of questions… But maybe its because the coaches feel working directly with these kids during varsity practice would be more beneficial to them then having them train with and play on the JV squad…I can only speculate… but I do tend believe these coaches are honestly trying to do what they think is best for them and their program… You make it sound they these coaches are actively trying to screw these kids over or something…I don’t see that…. Once again, unless they are astronomically and objectively better, instead of merely marginal and subjectively better, those Junior/Seniors will tend to get the nod over underclassmen…I know you claim these players are astronomically and objectively better….maybe they are, maybe they’re not… Yes, take your ball and go home…great lesson… Not really, my son plays club; I am club parent…I write my own big fat check (relatively speaking) every year…I am glad and proud my son is playing club; that he has the talent and I the means for him to do so… My chip is against the entitlement mentally that the club environment tends to breed, even in otherwise nice parents… Seriously, you act like sitting the varsity bench, as underclassmen, for a year or two is absolutely beneath these players and their parents….
What about at U9? In this thread, you stated that you already believe you U9 daughter will never play HS soccer... “if she stays in soccer, she'll never play in High School.” Thinking/believing your kid will skip HS soccer at age 8 sure sounds like chasing a scholarship to me... nothing wrong with that, just think you should be more honest about it...
My stance is pretty simple - and it covers why (I feel they should not play as well I feel my daughter should not play). So I will ask again - for the THIRD time... Is it better to ride the bench at Varsity - as freshmen/sohpmore with skill sets well above the majority of older kids? Or Is it better to play in game in JV? It's pretty simple really. And it has nothing to do with the coaches, club soccer or other players. It's about play time - and again - this is the third time I've mentioned this. I suggest you take less time assuming my thoughts and just answer the simple question.
My first reaction would probably be to say it would be better to play JV… However, what level of competition can they expect to find at the JV level? Would play time against really poor competition (which I would assume it would be for these players) be that much better or satisfying, then the alternative of being on the varsity squad, even if that might mean limited playtime? I am not sure…I could probably see both ways….for many parents and kids, just being on the Varsity squad as an underclassmen would be a great honor… IF these particular parents are as frustrated and confused by the situation as you claim, and truly want their kids playing JV, in lieu of being on the Varsity squad, then I’d suggest they approach the coach with their concerns…a delicate matter, I agree…but far better then having them just silently quit in frustration…