Viva le Revolution

Discussion in 'Youth & HS Soccer' started by Pete Bond, Jul 31, 2011.

  1. y.o.n.k.o

    y.o.n.k.o Member

    Jan 12, 2010
    Club:
    FC Barcelona

    The challenges and obstacles of changing the system to something better and productive are the same, regardless of who and how many are in charge....Reyna, Klinsmann or whoever else. The people who have control on State and/or local level wont be easily convinced to give up their control. They make money, they make their living that way. If these people wont give up their precious control over youth soccer, you have to find a way to work around them (bypass them).

    The key to that is to have the MLS clubs and USSF invest in youth soccer development, because they will benefit the most from better developed players. Of course others will benefit too, but it has to start from there and hopefully trickle down.

    When you say "corruption" in North Texas, what do you mean by that? Is it just the recruiting you talk about? Recruiting like what you describe happens everywhere in US, I think. It is natural for people to migrate to programs they deem better or more "elite". The question is why are they doing it and are these programs really better for the development of young players. All these "elite" programs and clubs produce college players just like other "not so elite" programs and clubs. So what is the difference then?
     
  2. bbbay1

    bbbay1 New Member

    Mar 19, 2012
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    By corrupt I'm speaking of the hold that local associations have over the "system" as well as recruiting. It takes years to truly develop a player. So to have parents moving their kids around every year to win a trophy that College and Pro coaches don't care about seems silly. Not saying that one shouldn't try to succeed and win but if the price is not learning the game or obtaining the skills to take it to the next level then that's a problem.All the College and Pro coaches care about is that you know how to play. Thats it. Winning trophies at the youth level is nice and could get you more exposure but if you don't have the work ethic, skill set and brain no trophy will ever matter. If a player is developing more quickly than his teammates thats one thing but I think most of the time this is not the case. Development does exist in my market but we certainly have a lot of U11 and U12 teams playing for wins only.
     
  3. y.o.n.k.o

    y.o.n.k.o Member

    Jan 12, 2010
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    What hold do they have and how? Everyone is recruiting players for two reasons. Either because they are talented players and everyone wants to work with talented players or because they are paying players and everyone needs those players to run a youth club (pay-to-play system across the whole country). Nothing "corrupt" about that, it's just the way it is everywhere in US. "Corrupt" is when you are paying someone to do something illegal.

    I agree. However, that is also not corruption. That is crazy parents changing clubs because they are impressed with some club's "winning" record and reputation. If you gonna blame the clubs, you should also blame the parents.


    I agree again. Winning is part of every game. I don't think anyone plays a game to lose. But winning should be a by-product of development.


    Yeah, but they have slightly different definitions of which players know how to play the game. And there is more than one way of playing the game.

    Is it possible that some of these teams win because they have players with work ethic, skill set and brains?
     
  4. manutd02

    manutd02 Member

    Oct 23, 2002
    For those that aren't aware, here are three very good blogs that I have come across that discuss many of the same things discussed here.

    3four3 Blog run by Gary Kleiban. He is brash, straightforward, and a little arrogant but much of what he has to say is spot on

    Football Garden run by Jaques Pelham. Some of the most sophisticated writing I've come across when discussing soccer in the US

    Soccer Purist- anonymous blogger. Brand new and only has a couple posts, but definitely has some worthwhile thoughts on youth soccer.

    [EDIT: I took the liberty of adding hyperlinks, hope that's OK--bigredfutbol]
     
  5. Pete Bond

    Pete Bond Member

    Oct 25, 2006
    Thanks!

    That's really, really good stuff.
     
  6. ChapacoSoccer

    ChapacoSoccer Member

    Jan 12, 2010
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Somebody should comment on the youth team video he just put up. His U11's are something.
     
  7. y.o.n.k.o

    y.o.n.k.o Member

    Jan 12, 2010
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Any specific articles you can recommend from these blogs?
     
  8. manutd02

    manutd02 Member

    Oct 23, 2002
    Sorry just saw this. I will look through and pick out my favorite posts from each site and get back with you
     
  9. UofIneedssoccer

    Nov 3, 2009
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    What revolution? Same results as before,we as Americans do not know how to play as a team. USA MNT-23 should be ashamed of themselves.
     
  10. y.o.n.k.o

    y.o.n.k.o Member

    Jan 12, 2010
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Wait.....I thought "playing as a team", "never say die attitude" and "playing with best effort" were some of the traditional characteristics of American athletes and players.......Are you now saying we even don't have those anymore?
     
  11. UofIneedssoccer

    Nov 3, 2009
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    I guess what I am saying is that we look at 20 individual players and try to build a team around them. I agree some of the best individual players come form the socal area and the southern areas but not the best teams. That seems to be the problem. You only need one MJ(22) on a team you do not need 11 of them. USA needs someone that knows how to build a team.
     
  12. Pete Bond

    Pete Bond Member

    Oct 25, 2006
    Well, how are we doing?

    Just checking in. Wondering how the Claudio and Juergen revolution is going?

    Hoping to hear some enabling excuses from YONKO and explantions on how we need to give them more time.

    ...please
     
  13. y.o.n.k.o

    y.o.n.k.o Member

    Jan 12, 2010
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    What do you suggest changes in 1 year? What can Claudio and Jurgen do to make coaches like you change the way you work with the kids, for example? What can anyone in-charge do to make coaches across the whole nation change their ways?

    Changes such as those US soccer needs are not done overnight and not by one or two people in Claudio's or Jurgen's positions. They can certainly try and kick-start something like a different approach or different methods, but it is up to the rest to follow, believe and spread their ideas across the whole big nation.
     
  14. Rebaño_Sagrado

    Rebaño_Sagrado Member+

    May 21, 2006
    Home
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    $$$
     
  15. Pete Bond

    Pete Bond Member

    Oct 25, 2006
    y.o.n.k.o

    Are you serious?
     
  16. y.o.n.k.o

    y.o.n.k.o Member

    Jan 12, 2010
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    No, I'm just kidding.....of course I'm serious.......Are you serious?

    What do you expect to change in 1 year? Do you expect Claudio to present one document, give a few lectures and all of a sudden every coach in US will start doing things his way? Does he need to speak to and supervise every coach in the nation, every day, on how to work properly with the youth talents in US? If it's not Claudio, who should it be? Mourinho? Cruijff? Hiddink? Who else? Is it one person job to solve all the problems?

    If you are not happy, then why don't you offer solutions to the problems? Better yet, why don't you try to solve them directly? Take Claudio's job and let's see if you would do better in a 1 year or any period of time.

    Even if someone, you, me, Claudio or whomever else, knows how to solve the problems, it is not up to just that one individual. You have to convince people around you of the changes that are needed and you need an "army" of followers to help you make the changes needed. Do you know how revolutions are made, how governments are overthrown? Have you studied World history?
     
  17. Pete Bond

    Pete Bond Member

    Oct 25, 2006
    Now I know you are not serious. I would always hesitate and not accuse someone of trolling unless it was clearly obvious to all who read.

    I'm convinced you hijacked this thread and destroyed an otherwise potentially valuable discussion.

    You're from chicago.

    Makes sense, you've learned well.
     
  18. y.o.n.k.o

    y.o.n.k.o Member

    Jan 12, 2010
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Actually with this post you show yourself as a troll. I don't see you discussing anything. Read my last post again, there are plenty of questions aimed at you. Why don't you answer them? Are they too complicated for you? I can't help you if you think anyone can come in charge and change everything that needs changing in 1 or 2 years. Believe me, I wish it worked that way, but it doesn't. And anyone who think these changes can happen in such a short span and done by one or two people, is a fool for thinking so. It's going to take many many years, perhaps decades even and definitely many many people to be involved in the changes to make any difference.

    I told you, if you are so unhappy, take the reigns yourself and see what can you change in 1 year. Otherwise STFU and GTFO.
     
    SheHateMe repped this.
  19. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Please stop the pissing contest.
    What was unreasonable about what he said? One year is not much time to change the entire youth soccer culture in such a large country.
     
    SheHateMe repped this.
  20. rhrh

    rhrh Member

    Mar 5, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Interesting that Claudio left. I've heard talk about bringing HS soccer back for academy players now that he is gone. It would be neat if they could coordinate the HS soccer seasons so every division played 10 months with a light schedule during HS play and national playoffs in June and July. Usually there is a geographic bent to who plays in the fall and who in the spring.
     
  21. UofIneedssoccer

    Nov 3, 2009
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    WHY should they bring it back. Lets practice 6 days a week play 3 games a week . Them get taken out by someone that wants to play rugby let it go. First time in my sons life of playing in 8 years NO INJURIES. He played all 27 games and still and he still wants to play. Let it go
     
  22. rhrh

    rhrh Member

    Mar 5, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    It's not rugby for everyone. Top programs in our state have been decimated by players going to the DA program. The ideal situation would be a reduced DA schedule during HS season, and convincing HS teams to allow players to miss practices for DA practices. We have maybe one Saturday HS game per season.

    I find it hard to believe that your son played 8 years of HS soccer; most players don't even play four. My son hasn't been injured in two years of HS soccer, and has played 20 or more hours per week of soccer.

    And I'd rather have him play in two varsity games and one DA game per week, than five tournament games in a weekend. Training to game ratio should be at least 3:1, and that's nowhere near regular club program ratios.
     
  23. UofIneedssoccer

    Nov 3, 2009
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    My point is my son has played for 8 years and with clubs and high school. He played as a freshman on the varsity the practices lasted 3 hours a day and they played 29 games in a month and half and that was coming off a summer with the club that went to National and they basically played 28 games in 35 day. To much soccer is not good for anyone and crap soccer is not good for anyone but crap players. Your state may have good coaches at the High School level but not all High Schools are that way. If your kids want to play High School I think that is great. There are other outlets at the club level that can be almost as good as the DA.
     
  24. y.o.n.k.o

    y.o.n.k.o Member

    Jan 12, 2010
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    So what if HS programs have been decimated by players going to the DAs? Why should HS soccer have the best players, when it's such a limited program?

    You say the ideal ratio should be 3:1, but HS is far from that, while the DAs are much closer to it. Which DA team plays 5 tournament games in a weekend? You can't say that the ideal ratio should be 3:1 and also say that you rather have your son play two varsity games and one DA game per week. It's contradictory.
     
  25. rhrh

    rhrh Member

    Mar 5, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    For my son's HS: HS soccer is at most two games per week, that is 3 hours. Practice is 2 hours per day if no game, one hour if a game. That gives two days with games and three days with practices only. 3 hours of games to (2+6) = 8 hours of practice. That's just below a 3:1 ratio of practices to games.

    If you add DA to the HS schedule, and allow DA players to switch one 2-hour HS practice for a DA practice plus add a 2-hour practice (many academies practice 6 days per week) and a 1.5 hour game, you have 8 + 2 + 1 (pre-game) = 11 hours of practice to 4.5 hours of games, which is just under 2.5:1.

    DA by itself is three 2-hour practices plus two 1.5 hour games per week for many clubs in my area. That is 2:1 practice to game ratio.

    But I still say it is moot, because club soccer for many teams is a ratio of 1:1 or worse for practices to games. All this USSF DA and ECNL "best practices" talk is NOT helping our soccer players until it is almost literally too late (hence U13/U14 programs?). My son is trying out with a DA team, and had 4 hours of practice with them this week (the current team will have 2 more hours this week). His club team had 1.5 hours of practice, and will have four 1.5-hour games at a tournament. That's a ratio of 1.5:6 = 1:4, the OTHER way. Compared to club soccer, HS soccer is fine and dandy as are even USSF DA programs with the least practice time.

    I'd love to see things like mandating 3:1 practice:game time, at least over the whole season if broken a few individual week. But that's not just at the DA level, it has to be across the board for any non-rec teams. In reality, people like myself who have coached and played soccer will pay for extra training for our kids to try to get the ratio back to where it belongs. But he and I both hope he makes the cut, because having a 3:1 ratio of training to games within the same program is much more valuable than a la carte.
     

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