Video technology, Attendance Figures and Future Football Trends

Discussion in 'Real Madrid' started by Shay Z, Feb 24, 2011.

  1. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
    One step ahead
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Country:
    Palestine
    Re: Olympique Lyonnais vs Real Madrid | UEFA CL 1st KO - Post-match Discussion [R]

    Stats seem to suggest that in general, attendances are rising at the top of the game, but that could be due to stadium expansion etc. ESPN is great for statistics, and the premiership data can be seen here:
    http://soccernet.espn.go.com/stats/attendance/_/league/eng.1/barclays-premier-league?cc=5739

    You can skip between different years and leagues etc from that link.

    However, the data is limited for the following reasons:

    1. There is very little data about what is going on in the lower leagues and grassroots. What happens at the top clubs and leagues may not necessarily be a reliable indicator of what is happening across the game as a whole.
    2. The fact that attendances at a stadium have gone up is no indication that people are happy with the current state of football. You can see at Manchester, for instance, that half of them only turn up to protest against the Glazers :D Stadiums only form a small part of the fanbase, and it's possible to pack a stadium whilst losing fans.
     
  2. Eddie

    Eddie Member+

    Oct 19, 2005
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Unofficial attendance stats for the last 3 seasons:

    Serie A
    25,324 > 24,603 > 22,939

    La Liga:
    28,491 > 27,699 > 28,907

    Bundesliga
    42,610 > 42,441 > 41,735

    EPL
    35,650 > 34,150 > 34,967

    As you can see there's less attendance all around Europe apart from La Liga where it's pretty stable.

    I am surprised from Bundesligas attendance, i knew they had many people going to games but i didn't think it was almost twice more then Italy for example. Cheap tickets ftw?

    Stats are taken from ESPN's site.
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. genvej

    genvej Member

    Sep 27, 2006
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nice work. I take it its an average of all games?

    Yeah... i know... Dortmund had about 70.000. No idea it was that big either.
     
  4. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
    One step ahead
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Country:
    Palestine
    Nice one Eddie, I couldn't be bothered to do the hard graft.
     
  5. Lockjaw

    Lockjaw BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 8, 2004
    Kaiserslautern
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Country:
    United States
    Re: Olympique Lyonnais vs Real Madrid | UEFA CL 1st KO - Post-match Discussion [R]

    This is classic. Repped.
     
  6. SóloMadrid redded

    Feb 6, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Let's please keep this stuff away from football. It's completely impractical. It seems perfect, but there are so many elements to consider.

    So what is an major game-changing decision? A goal, obviously. But what about a dive just outside the goal area resulting in a FK, against a team with a FK specialist? What about a throw-in against Stoke? Or something as simple as a corner resulting in a goal?
    Is it only the second incident that is available for review, then? Not the bad call from the ref leading up to it?

    And who decides whether it should be reviewed or not? With a fourth official watching everything, the players are definitely going to take advantage of this. If they know something is wrong, they're going to whine even more, so that the ref will ask the fourth official. And players don't care about the flow of the game, they'll take advantage of this frequently.


    You also have to see it from the match-attending fans POV. So what, they're just going to sit there for a few minutes and wait while the fourth official watches and makes a decision? What if it's a tough call? What if he completely disagrees with the ref? What if it's an hand-to-ball/ball-to-hand kind of call? Or whether it should be red or a yellow... was it that hard of a tackle or not?
     
  7. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
    One step ahead
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Country:
    Palestine
    It's actually very simple. The referee maintains full control of the decisions. If he is unsure of something - anything - he refers it to an assistant with access to a replay.

    Consultation doesn't take long - they do it currently, with the assistant ref or the linesman, and it takes a short while at the moment. I haven't seen any fans staging a coup because the ref is consulting with his assistant about a decision. With access to video technology, the decision they end up with is quicker, and more certain.
     
  8. 4x4s

    4x4s Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2006
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    All i'm saying is, picture the Busquets peek-a-boo scene from the CL last season on the huge monitors, with everybody on the pitch and the crowd seeing it. It's not only about the decision right there, the player himself would be so embarrassed that he'd probably not try it again.
     
  9. SóloMadrid redded

    Feb 6, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    True, but I still find it very impractical.

    What if a goal is being reviewed, and after watching the replay, the fourth official decided to annul it because there was a tiny foul in the background that wasn't noticed? It must sucks to be the players and fans that had celebrated to only find out there wasn't any goal.

    It also kind of ruins the fun of it, you know, with having that feeling in the back of your mind that there might not be a goal. The end result could be that after the goal is scored, everyone are just waiting for the assistant to confirm it.

    Ofcourse these kinds of goals are not seen often, but still, with this assistan reviewing every major decision, like goals and PK's, there'll be many situations in top football where the refs call will be overruled by the assistant.

    I'm just saying it has its flaws.
     
  10. raven3k

    raven3k Member+

    May 31, 2007
    Madrista land
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Fantastic topic btw.

    Here's a scenario, what about in the case of an Albiol that happened in the Copa Del rey (against sevilla), where the replays were inconclusive.

    I dont mind video technology, the thing is that having controversy and grey areas is what keeps people talking about the game. This is the view that Fifa seems to have.

    What we lack is referee's like Collina.
     
    1 person likes this.
  11. Eddie

    Eddie Member+

    Oct 19, 2005
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Platinis solution to these problems has been to add the two extra refs that we see in EL and CL. Do you guys think that those two refs have really improved the officiating?

    Here's a short video about it in case you missed it:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ2wvLuXb4g"]YouTube - Now We See More[/ame]
     
  12. SóloMadrid redded

    Feb 6, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I haven't even noticed them. Where were they, when Ronaldo's FK hit Gourcuffs arm?

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-5YZ7pZfaA"]YouTube - handsball gourcuff vs real madrid II no penalty ??[/ame]

    He's probably standing only five meters away, goddamit!!!
     
  13. demogorgon

    demogorgon Member

    Jul 18, 2006
    Not every hand play in the penalty area is penalty. That was 50:50 call at best.
     
  14. Eddie

    Eddie Member+

    Oct 19, 2005
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    He was to the left of the place it happened, like 3 meters away from it.

    I doubt that he didn't see it, he just didn't call it and that's what bothers me. FIFA/UEFA don't want refs to lose authority. If we had video tech in that game this would have most likely been a penalty. If given after none of the refs on the field called it, that would make them "lose authority".
     
  15. raven3k

    raven3k Member+

    May 31, 2007
    Madrista land
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    That is not 50:50.

    The player knows which direction the ball was going, when you are jumping especially from a set piece, the intention is to block the ball.

    Therefore, Gourcuff did it on purpose.

    It should have been a penalty.

    Edit: agree with Eddie.
     
  16. SóloMadrid redded

    Feb 6, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I agree, but it was an example. There are many more situations like these, very 50/50, but the extra ref haven't voiced against the refs decision.

    The single incident might be 50/50 but if you put them together, the extra ref rarely overrules the match ref.

    Like Eddie said, they're not worth much if they'll always follow the match ref's decision.
     
  17. 4x4s

    4x4s Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2006
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    It's not a penalty when the ball hits the players' hand from close distance/when he can't move his arm away in time, not when he turns his elbow and blocks the ball.

    If that would've been a penalty kick decision, Gourcuff would have nothing to complain about, even though he seemed like he wanted to protect his face (he shouldn't stand in the wall if he's afraid).

    This is something that Salgado was doing all the time, just jump with his arms flailing around, and that's unfortunately a handball.
     
  18. Alma Merengue

    Alma Merengue Member+

    May 5, 2005
    Not a proponent of in-game use of replay. However, I would not be opposed to video replays being used to punish players after the match. The peek-a-boo incident, clear dives, stuff that happens away from the play, same player constantly diving and/or asking for cards for an opponent, etc.

    I wouldn't mind bans being issued. You would still run into issues of what criteria is used and differences in how things are interpreted (and the acting would probably get better), but it is an aspect of the game that drives me crazy.

    The diving and fake injuries drive me crazy. One thing I would consider is leave all stoppage decisions to officials. Between the refs, two assistants and a fourth official - all of which can communicate during the game - there should be no reason for this alleged fair play nonsense of knocking the ball out of play.
     
  19. 4x4s

    4x4s Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2006
    Club:
    Real Madrid

    Watch this:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWc9BdK5DuU"]Furtado fair play[/ame]

    Same player, this time he scores:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwlrzv-o8W4&"]YouTube - lefteris ? ??????? ???? ?? ??? ????????[/ame]
     
  20. demogorgon

    demogorgon Member

    Jul 18, 2006
    I agre that they are completely useles :D.

    @4x4: his hand was right in front of his face. I've only heard one referee opinion on this case and he said he would not give a PK.


    Anyway, I do support introduction of technology but it should be done carefully and with a lot of consideration. They could begin with just goal-line technology and move forward from there.
     
  21. Alma Merengue

    Alma Merengue Member+

    May 5, 2005
    Wow. That guys is an ass. The first one is stupid b/c a second ball comes in.

    The second is what I am referring to though ... the play should continue with the man down unless the ref blows the whistle (that is how I think it should work). I am not talking about what happens when play is restarted - I am talking about how play is stopped by players now. Right now the guy goes down and if the opponent doesn't play the ball out he is considered some sort of outlaw that doesn't abide by fair play rules.

    Ironic because the player exaggerating the injury doesn't get accused on 'unfair play' (and you know it is an exaggeration 99% of the time) and neither does the player the returns the ball 50 yards away from where the play was stopped. It makes zero sense to me. Leave the decision n the hands of the officials.
     
  22. Cyrudan

    Cyrudan Member

    Sep 21, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Re: Olympique Lyonnais vs Real Madrid | UEFA CL 1st KO - Post-match Discussion [R]

    "Through the first 50 games, the rating was up 48 percent, households increased 54 percent and viewers rose 60 percent"
    @World Cup

    What a dying sport.

    The Gourcuff situation it's his upper arm and he didn't exactly lift his hands to protect himself.

    Laws of the Game
    In determining whether a player deliberately (direct free kick), or accidentally (no offence) handled the ball, the referee has several different considerations- whether the arm moved towards the ball, how long the player had to react, whether the player had his eyes on the ball and whether the players arm is in a "natural" or an "unnatural" position.
     
  23. 4x4s

    4x4s Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2006
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    This is completely irrelevant. If you're in the penalty box and a shot is coming towards you, lifting your hands up to protect your face, is a penalty.

    It's cruel for pretty boys, but in this case, you have to take the ball in the face. There is absolutely no rule that allows intentional handballs for protection.
     
  24. Eddie

    Eddie Member+

    Oct 19, 2005
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Re: Olympique Lyonnais vs Real Madrid | UEFA CL 1st KO - Post-match Discussion [R]

    Are you talking about TV spectators or actual attendance in the stadium?
     
  25. 4x4s

    4x4s Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2006
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Re: Olympique Lyonnais vs Real Madrid | UEFA CL 1st KO - Post-match Discussion [R]

    You should also mention that this is about viewers in the USA, with the number being pushed by the surprise performances of the national team, where viewers started to tune in just to cheer 'their boys', because, to be honest here, the general public suddenly came to the conclusion that the US national team doesn't suck. I'd like to see th eUS team not qualify (unlikely) and then we'll talk viewers.

    It's like how everybody in Germany seemed to care about F1 when Schumacher was winning the titles. It's the success that brings the viewers, not the sport itself. After Schumacher quit, a lot less people started to bother about it.
     

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