Victims of a Campaign- The Other Footy Teams Thread

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by GunneRy, Mar 25, 2015.

  1. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    I saw it was denied via a briefed story at the weekend which seems kind of strange to give oxygen to it

    Vertoghen's black eye was now part of the supposed show down :ROFLMAO:
     
  2. Walia Ibex

    Walia Ibex Red Card

    Arsenal
    Ethiopia
    Oct 2, 2019
    I understand we as Americans want one of the most talented USMNT players to play in the 1st team at a big PL club but what as he warranted to start over Willian or CHO? Willian and Pedro will age out in sooner but Pulisic just needs to show Lampard hard work in training and similar performances like today in relief or in domestic cups. His time will come.
     
  3. pookspur

    pookspur Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    Indiana
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    wherever I'm needed, there I am.
     
  4. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    This is a weird take, since most fans aren't demand he play every game, they'd just like him to be part of a regular rotation. When he has played, Pulisic has been generally fine (and I'd say better than Mount on the wing). Given the "play the youth" mantra, it makes far more sense to give him time than to run Pedro out again. Especially in the context of shifting our entire formation to give Reece James a start in the Champions League.
     
  5. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Right you are!

    What's the word on Vertongen shagging Ericksen's wife? Or really to the point, WTF is going on with Spurs & Poch this season?

    Your insights are always welcome! :D
     
  6. footykid

    footykid Member+

    Jan 10, 2005
    Mississauga, Ont
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    They are opposite Liverpool. Levy is so risk adverse he couldn't gamble on players. Its not that shocking is it? The teams ahead of them struggled with talent (on and off the pitch), they got a huge alpha on a generational goal scorer, got a few players early in the inflationary period (Dembele most notably who was the early model of today's modern CM as playmaker), supplemented with EPL level youngsters, and maxed out on transfer income.

    If they were smart they would have kept gambling, because the advantage would crumble overtime since playing staff are depreciating on field assets, but transfer fees were inflating. It has been better for teams sell, but negotiate aggressively then hold on to players for the last 6-8 years at least.

    Now they have at best Son who is for demographic reasons never going to get what he is worth talent-wise. Erikson still at the end of his contract?( Will probably end up at Inter or Juve on a free) Key defensive assets at the end of their legs, and about 10 players of midling value and talent who wouldn't look out of place at midtable clubs. Basically they are Arsenal in Wenger's final two season on paper, with a stadium to pay for.
     
  7. Walia Ibex

    Walia Ibex Red Card

    Arsenal
    Ethiopia
    Oct 2, 2019
    Oh I agree he should get some time in the PL. I just don't think he warrants a starting position. Chelsea youth movement has been successful so far but like I said Pulisic will get his time. I really don't know why he isn't getting more run. As a supporter of Chelsea and listening to Lampard press conferences what are his reasons for the lack of PT in your opinion?
     
  8. pookspur

    pookspur Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    Indiana
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    first question: the rumor popped up, and then pretty much went away (which doesn't usually happen if it's more than a rumor), which makes me think there's not a lot in it - though obviously I have no meaningful knowledge on it.

    as to the second question, it's not just this season. we've been shite for pretty much all of 2019, but a lot of folks didn't notice because of a couple of decent performances in the CL and because your lot being so crap down the stretch let us off the hook in the League. but as to 'what's going on?', speculation is rampant, and comprehension nonexistent, at least amongst the Spurs fans to which I have access. Footykid's post is no less reasonable than the other 40 or so theories running around, so feel free to go with that. What's apparent is that Poch's supposed man-managing brilliance is not all that. His trademark construction of teams greater than the sum of their parts has been turned upside down. Even if we accept that players like Dele, Dier, and others are rather less than we once thought, the performances are far below what the talent merits. We are playing utterly uninspired and lethargic football. Very few of our signings over the last few years are panning out; Ndombele and Lo Celso are too early to call, but at the back, the likes of Sanchez, Aurier, and Foyth are more than a little disappointing. I will say that I quite like Lucas Moura, but Sissoko has reverted back to his '17-18 form and Winks - whom I also like - … y'know what … this is going nowhere.

    I don't know what's going on. Poch has us playing too narrow, but tactics aren't the fundamental issue. the players - or at least some (too many) of them - have downed tools, and the situation is not sustainable. If Pochettino really wants to be at Spurs, I want him to stay. I don't care if this season is a wash. Hell, we could go down and it would bother me a jot (I'm serious about that, by the way). As long as he's prepared to get players in that'll make a fist of it, and (more importantly) get shut of those who won't, I'm ok. But if he's no longer fully committed, then he's the one that needs to go. That's the question that Levy needs to answer, and soon. Maybe he's already done so, and Poch will have all the time he needs to sort it. But I don't know.

    What I do know is that what's currently going on doesn't look tenable. If the problem is Eriksen, Toby, Verts, anyone else, or any combination of them, Poch needs to get them out of the first team, not the kind of 'you'll not start, but I may bring you on if I need you' shit that he's been doing. Again, I'll back him to the hilt if Spurs is what he wants, but I'm not optimistic. But I am writing rather a lot and saying nothing. So let me finish with a brief bit of substance …

    Scratch the last paragraph's opener … this is what I do know: I love Spurs. I can't control any of what's going on there, but it's all a part of the ride they take me on. when we were shit, I always said, "we've been good before and we will be again … and I'll be there". well, we've been shit before, and if we're going to be again, I can live with it. I will do what I do. I am calm.
     
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  9. Tonerl

    Tonerl Member+

    Arsenal
    May 10, 2006
    Cincinnati, OH
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is Poch a manager that runs players into the ground, do you think? Could that explain the ‘downing tools’?

    Also, I’d take Sanchez and Foyth off your hands in a second. Aurier, not so much.
     
  10. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Peace and love to you brother. That read like a post done after a glass or two. ;)

    Sorry that you may be losing faith in your manager, but that's not surprising given the circumstances.

    Nor is it surprising that you'll stick to your club, for whatever ride they take you on. You're not one of those "I'm checking out until the club does X that I want them to do" types that we've seen around our board in the last 3-4 years. :p

    p.s. As soon as I heard the Vertongen/Ericksen rumor, it sounded like hogwash. Credit to you, you didn't take the bait!
     
  11. pookspur

    pookspur Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    Indiana
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    That (the running players down bit) is definitely among the speculation. It makes sense, whether true or not.

    I, too, think there's a player there in Foyth that will pay off down the line - though he's been uneven for us. And you're right about Aurier, as well. Sanchez I have not found convincing, though I hope your evaluation is better than mine in the end.
     
  12. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    I have no explanation for it.
     
  13. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Now that's a first!!
     
  14. danielh

    danielh Member+

    May 30, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
  15. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    I could speculate, but I have no “in the know” knowledge, so the speculation would be baseless. I’m not sold on Lampard and it remains to be seen if he goes the way of Pep or the way of OGS.
    Our underlying numbers have been fairly good so far, but then they were also pretty good last year.
     
  16. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    My personal spurs theory is similar to klopp at BVB

    You need to keep renewing the team

    Instead they got old together and failed to cash in on 1 or 2 big stars. We know Eriksen was desperate to get out. Maybe kane and Dele don't believe anymore? Does poch really want to be there?

    I suspect the stadium has a lot to do with the change in strategy from levy

    Maybe he got gassed and thought they could win the league with a couple more signings....
     
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  17. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Think it's more that Kane has lost a bit of quickness because of the repeated ankle injuries, and Alli was a bit overrated anyhow.
     
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  18. And_ROOS

    And_ROOS Member+

    Dec 30, 2006
    Melbourne, Aus
    The hardcore Chelsea fans I work with are stoked with this year so far. You consider you had a transfer ban and had to play a lot of kids who were unproven in the prem, with a manager who is definitely unproven, and they were preseason expecting to be bottom 7 for the first part of the season.

    Now every Monday at work they are losing their minds.
     
  19. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #22194 NorthBank, Oct 8, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
    The season is only 8 games old. You cannot reliably project that into a trend in form for this season, for any team.

    Chelsea started a little rough (1 win in first 4) and have improved since (3 wins in last 4). Which form will be more representative? Hard to say.

    OK maybe you can say that King Liverpool's perfect record and 8 point lead indicates a trend. But even they've shown a few recent cracks, and have relied a bit too much on luck and narrow victories for Klopp's liking.

    I always think you have to go through half the season before you can even begin to make any sort of conclusions. But if LFC gets to a 15pt lead before then, then I may make an exception.
     
  20. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Well yeah but those are the kind of reasons to cash in at peak and reinvest
     
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  21. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    There are a lot of complicating factors. First, the squad Lampard inherited was already pretty good! We finished 3rd last season and our underlying numbers were excellent. Second, while we lost Hazard (and Luiz), we bought Pulisic and brought back Zouma, Batshuayi, Abraham, Tomori, Mount and Reece James from loans. We could also have brought back Bakayoko, which I think would have been smart, but whatever. If the argument is that our youth academy is actually very good (and I have no reason to think it's not), that's actually quite an infusion of talent. I have no idea who was expecting us to be "bottom 7", but it certainly wasn't me.
    Third, we've beaten some bad teams (and Wolves) and our goal differential is middling, in part because of tactics. Going to Old Trafford and letting them set up to counter was strange. It's the only way those chumps can generate any attack.
    So judgment to be reserved. Some of his decisions (Ross Barkley takes our penalties?!?) remain......odd to me. That said, he's also done some things well, so we'll see. I think a lot of Chelsea fans are giving Lampard a lot of leeway, because he's Lampard. Problem is, the last time we hired a club legend on the basis of some good results, it did not go well. OGS had his honeymoon too.
     
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  22. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    The trend of liverpool is a bit longer than 8 games
     
  23. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fair. Tottenham too. I was basically reacting to the post about Chelsea by saying it's too early to be sure of anyone.
     
  24. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    It’s actually pretty consistent with the trend as well.
     
  25. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Raus
     

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