Victims of a Campaign- The Other Footy Teams Thread

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by GunneRy, Mar 25, 2015.

  1. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  2. GunnerJacket

    GunnerJacket Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 18, 2003
    Gainesville, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I doubt they'll be banned, if only because if they're truly guilty then something more must be done about this issue.

    Time for a salary cap, I say.
     
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  3. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    Arsenal
    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Salary caps are extremely anti-labor. Hard pass on that.
     
  4. pookspur

    pookspur Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    Indiana
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    I saw his Swansea team at Loftus Road in April. They were down 3-0 within 20 minutes, and it is not hyperbole to say they could easily have lost 10-0 (it was 4-0 in the end). It was one of the poorest, most disjointed defensive performances I've ever seen. I mean, it was bad.

    Now, it can't be representative, or they'd've not finished anywhere near the top half. And every side has 'one of those days' on occasion. But it was so chaotic that as you watched it, you had to wonder what they'd been doing all week - literally, I sat there thinking 'what did their manager and coaches do the last three days?'. I didn't know enough about them to know if a key player was missing or if someone was out of position, but they had Cameron Carter-Vickers and Kyle Naughton (both decent Prem level players) on the left side of their defense, and they got abused - like, over and over. I actually wondered if their manager might get the sack, as it looked like his players had downed tools.

    Did some nice stuff in the Swedish lower divisions, apparently, though.

    Good luck, Brighton.
     
  5. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I dunno. UEFA seems to be making this Citeh accusation a sort of last stand on FFF. If they fail, then what legs does FFF have to stand on?

    UEFA seems to have taken the reins from FIFA in the last year or two. And I don't mean this as a compliment.
     
  6. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm sure your observations are correct. All I know is that we had a bit of trouble with his little Ostersunds side (they beat us at our place until we put our foot down at theirs). And also that he had his players and coaches doing a silly broadway song & dance routine... TBF I don't know whose idea that was!
     
  7. pookspur

    pookspur Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    Indiana
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    As I said, I only saw the one game, which isn't much to go on. But apparently Dan Ashworth, Brighton's DoF, who's a bit under fire having sacked the popular (and relatively successful) Chris Hughton and replaced him with … well … Graham Potter, clarified the selection by saying he'd gone to see Swansea under Potter and it was the best 45 minutes of football he'd seen from any one team.

    Well, he might have benefited by going to another, to my thinking. Anyway … it's only four years, eh?
     
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  8. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    Arsenal
    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Is Hughton popular though?

    He had Brighton basically safe by March and then led them right into the thick of the relegation fight by failing to win any of their last 9 league games, including 6 consecutive matches where Brighton failed to score.

    I get that a lot of people were upset because the lone racial minority coaching in the Premier League was let go (and that's a huge problem that English football needs to deal with), but the results at the tail end of the season screamed for a managerial change.
     
  9. pookspur

    pookspur Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    Indiana
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    he is at Spurs. :D

    yeah, as I understand it, he is - pretty much wherever he's been. they definitely went through a rough Spring at Brighton, and there may have been some grumbling, but I think the general consensus is that a rough patch wasn't worth sacrificing the stability he was bringing to a club trying to punch above it's weight and stick in the prem.

    I don't have any insight into what folks think at Brighton, but I don't think this is going over terribly well.
     
  10. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Uh, yeah. And I don't think his popularity has much to do with his race. He's just a good guy.
     
  11. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    Arsenal
    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Good guy and good manager are different things though.

    The consensus I've seen is that he isn't a particularly good manager and probably deserved to go, with a smattering of "he wouldn't have been fired if he was white."
     
  12. pookspur

    pookspur Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    Indiana
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    From what I can tell, Ashworth rather fancies himself as having his finger on the pulse of the game and believes that he knows the new school of management - 'the future' - that distinguishes itself from the fast-becoming-passe old school of English management, and he sees Potter as representing the former and Hughton as the latter. He'll claim he's making the bold decision that is required to keep Brighton at the forefront of the game and punching above their weight.

    Fair shout. Hughton's defenders (myself included) will be the same folks that scoffed at Soton's sacking of Nigel Adkins for Mauricio Pochettino. Both dismissals can be viewed as harsh (Adkins' certainly was), but were/will be vindicated by the right results.

    And, Mr. Ashworth, condemned by the wrong ones.

    The question, of course, is whether or not Potter will get the right results at Brighton. Ashworth is definitely rolling the dice, here, however much he denies it.

    As for the 'race' issue, it's hard to credit here. Hughton fits nicely (or sadly, depending on perspective) into a long-established category of English manager - promotion specialist, organizer, motivator - that's valued at a certain level of the game, but disparaged at higher ones. One can easily name a half-dozen or more white gaffers pigeon-holed thusly who would surly have suffered the same fate in this dynamic.

    That is, to be clear, in no way weighing in on the 'race in management' issue, which surely exists. But Hughton, who has to his credit cleared some of those hurdles gracefully, was tripped up by something rather different this time.
     
  13. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's for damn sure. But you questioned his "popularity" and in this case I think that may be based on him being more a good guy than a good manager.
     
  14. GunnerJacket

    GunnerJacket Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 18, 2003
    Gainesville, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    a) Not entirely, especially in this situation. Sports leagues are closed, insular markets. If we're to insure parity there has to be some vehicle that keeps spending power within reasonable balance across the league. Now if there's a way to do that other than a cap then I'm game. In the meantime you tie the cap level to the league revenues to ensure the labor is constantly getting the appropriate share.

    b) I say this knowing full well the powers that be won't let it come to pass. The power teams want to hoard more of the revenue and will fight against anything that nips away at their oligarchy.
     
  15. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    If you impose a salary cap in England, the Premier Leaue may never have another Champions League finalist.
     
  16. AEAAFC96

    AEAAFC96 Member+

    Mar 27, 2006
    NYC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  17. GunnerJacket

    GunnerJacket Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 18, 2003
    Gainesville, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Ideally there should be one for each league, with more balanced payouts if league revenues within each. Either that or some other mechanism that tears at the rigid caste system that keeps bigger clubs big.

    But again, I know the power brokers won't go for it so it's a pipe dream.
     
  18. GunnerJacket

    GunnerJacket Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 18, 2003
    Gainesville, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Well, so far both promotion playoff finals have gone down to the wire. Tranmere with the late OT winner and today Charlton scores in the 94th min to best Sunderland. Wonder if the Villains and Blades can match that?
     
  19. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd rather see Villa come back up than Derby.
     
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  20. GunnerJacket

    GunnerJacket Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 18, 2003
    Gainesville, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    My bad. Forgot Derby was the other half.

    I'm with you, tho. Prefer Aston Villa return to the top flight.
     
  21. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Bear might kill you for this.

    I’m ok with villa coming back, but only if that diaby goal gets replayed every villa match.
     
  22. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Bruh, salary caps are anti labor. There is no caveat. Footballers are workers, the labor. The clubs in football are independent entities which is different from American sports. Salary caps favor owners. (They should abolish them in American sports too but Americans don’t support workers rights anymore, from the big earners to people at Walmart)

    I don’t understand this desire for parity. Some clubs are just better than the other. I don’t care that Gateshead FC will never win the premier league, and neither do their fans.
     
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  23. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Villa coming back up after a few years in the Championship. I just watched it in a funny way: watched Sky Sports News which was live on NBC during the 2nd half. The highlight for me was seeing Prince William's reaction at FT... screaming, jumping, pumping his firsts... just like a typical, unrestrained footy fan, rather than a Royal. That kind of stuff comes from his mum. :)

    Frankly I was a little happier to see Charlton win their playoff to get back up to the Championship... I'd welcome The Valleyr back in the Prem... I've got some personal history there. (another story)
     
  24. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Derby would not get 12 points in the prem with their squad
     
  25. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just watching the CL Final and they did a moment of applause for Jose Antonio Reyes. Whoa! That's too soon. Car crash. RIP mate.
     
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