Victims of a Campaign- The Other Footy Teams Thread

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by GunneRy, Mar 25, 2015.

  1. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Unintentional
     
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  2. AEAAFC96

    AEAAFC96 Member+

    Mar 27, 2006
    NYC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  3. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    The Serbian fans had been hurling insults at Xhaka and especially Shaqiri all game, and when you consider what they've been through, it's a little uncharitable to blame them for a couple of gestures after a goal.
     
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  4. crazy150

    crazy150 Member+

    Aug 27, 2006
    North Cuba
    Why is the gesture so bad? Seriously can someone explain. Is it more than a symbol of albania?
     
  5. footykid

    footykid Member+

    Jan 10, 2005
    Mississauga, Ont
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Wasn't the eagle the symbol of the austrian-hungarian empire?
     
  6. Owen Gohl

    Owen Gohl Member

    Jun 21, 2000
    #18531 Owen Gohl, Jun 24, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
    The double eagle was the AH symbol. One also is on the Albanian flag. Shaqiri is an ethnic Albanian from Kosovo, which has declared independence, but which the Serbs feel is still part of Serbia

    The story below doesn't mention it, but the Serbs' feelings about the bird probably go all the way back to World War One, which began when AH invaded their country. .

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/24/sports/world-cup/mo-salah-egypt-xhaka-shaqiri.html
     
  7. Bluto11

    Bluto11 The sky is falling!

    May 16, 2003
    Chicago, IL
    Well, Serbia do not recognize the independence of Kosovo, the Battle of Kosovo is the root of modern Serbian nationalism. Xhaka and Shaqiri are Kosovar Albanian, Xhaka’s Dad Spent time in Yugoslavian jail for advocating Kosovar independence in the ‘60s. Shaqiri was born in Kosovo.
     
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  8. Super Llama

    Super Llama Member+

    May 21, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    All of this is true without explaining why it's bad...because it's not bad. The Serbs wanna talk shit about ethnic cleansing Albanians and Kosovars and get vv whiny when somebody has the GALL, the straight up AUDACITY, to flash an Albanian symbol back at them. Bunch of snowflakes
     
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  9. Jamooky

    Jamooky Member+

    Mar 24, 2006
    Cleveland, OH USA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As someone who has a Master's Degree in Modern European history (big time nerd :geek:) - let me say, this shit runs deep. Best just to stay out of it. That's what I do when it comes to all things Yugoslav.
     
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  10. pookspur

    pookspur Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    Indiana
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    trying to find the 'good guys' and the 'bad guys' in Balkan politics can be a bit of a challenge. If you don't really, really know what you're talking about, you can easily walk into a minefield.

    … and even if you do.

    edit: er … what Jamooky said.
     
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  11. crazy150

    crazy150 Member+

    Aug 27, 2006
    North Cuba
    What llama said. How different is that than kissing your badge? In itself is not offensive like the finger or a racial slur. It may be a non verbal “f you” but so what?

    When the Serbs are getting upset because someone flashed a symbol to them then Jesus Christ we are in a PC era.
     
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  12. Shen-O

    Shen-O Member+

    United States
    Jul 26, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I started going way further back to get some general perspective and after briefly combing through 700+ years worth of history...it all comes down to when you’d like to begin. Pick time period A and you’ll be swayed one side, pick time period B and you might feel differently.
     
  13. pookspur

    pookspur Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    Indiana
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Serbs getting upset has been around rather longer than political correctness.
     
  14. AEAAFC96

    AEAAFC96 Member+

    Mar 27, 2006
    NYC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Of course, that's why their bitching about it to FIFA.

    You think Shaqiri and Xhaka are going to cry foul over being fined for the gesture? Hell no! They'll pay the fine with a smile as wide as The Joker's for angering the Serbs.
     
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  15. AEAAFC96

    AEAAFC96 Member+

    Mar 27, 2006
    NYC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah I was going to make a point about the Balkans War but...this isn't the place to start stirring crap up that I don't know about.
     
  16. Super Llama

    Super Llama Member+

    May 21, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I think the Balkan history is quite useful to know in order to understand the future trajectory of the US

    Kinda ;) but not really

    What's your specialty Jamooky?
     
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  17. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
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  18. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Word. The fall of the Ottoman Empire was less than clean.
     
  19. crazy150

    crazy150 Member+

    Aug 27, 2006
    North Cuba
    True. But complaining to mommy fifa is some real 2nd grade stuff.
     
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  20. Bluto11

    Bluto11 The sky is falling!

    May 16, 2003
    Chicago, IL
    Well yeah, I don't think it is bad I was just giving some of the historical context of why the Serbians are acting salty.

    Everyone should read this book, and then we can start a thread and have a discussion, three weeks?

    https://www.amazon.com/Yugoslavia-Death-Nation-Laura-Silber/dp/0140262636
     
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  21. Jamooky

    Jamooky Member+

    Mar 24, 2006
    Cleveland, OH USA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No real 'specialty', but I wrote my thesis on the role of football in Yugoslav unity. Seriously. I know the history as well as I can, which is why I don't get involved in debating who's at fault for what.

    It's proper Hatfield and McCoy stuff - and I don't wanna get caught in the crossfire.

    EDIT - full disclosure, all 4 sets of my great-grandparents were born in the Austria-Hungarian Empire; which I DO feel gets treated unfairly by modern historians. But I'll leave it at that.
     
  22. Jamooky

    Jamooky Member+

    Mar 24, 2006
    Cleveland, OH USA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good book.

    I like this one: https://www.amazon.com/Tito-Rise-Fall-Yugoslavia-Richard/dp/0571255817

    although I had a professor who thought it wasn't very balanced. Who's knows? Richard West is a journalist and relies more on on personal accounts than historical research.
     
  23. Bluto11

    Bluto11 The sky is falling!

    May 16, 2003
    Chicago, IL
    I doubt it would have survived, but I always wonder what would have happened if Franz Ferdinand's United States of Greater Austria (basically the federalization of the AH Empire) came to fruition.
     
  24. Jamooky

    Jamooky Member+

    Mar 24, 2006
    Cleveland, OH USA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I place more blame on the Hungarian branch of the Empire and "Magyarization" efforts. But let's not slide into the rabbit hole. :oops:
     
  25. Bluto11

    Bluto11 The sky is falling!

    May 16, 2003
    Chicago, IL
    I will have to check that one out. As for something not being balanced, is anything really balanced? I think we had a two week discussion on that in my senior seminar class back in college. As long as I know where the author is coming from I am ok, plus I will not get all my info from one source/person!
     

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