The stories of Eder's great-grandfather being Italian only surfaced after he was selected the first time for Italy after people's reactions.
I'm going to be repeating what most everyone has told you, so I don't expect that it will make a difference, but you need to change the lens you're looking at it from. False narratives abound. What did they screw up? Or better, how? By $raping$ a third rate league before retiring in basically a no lose situation, while also making their teams profit? So who lost? I have a similar silly discussion with a friend of mine. I call him Johnny Rubentus. He doesn't seem to get it. He complains that money is spent on all these aging stars and thinks that teams should be built from within. How? Where? With whom? The owners don't expect these big signings to make them instant contenders, but to make them profit. Have they failed?
Or crappy Amauri. Ok so they all suck because the league is crappy. I don't believe and they can't all be bad players. They failed in the league and on the field. They made money for themselves which in a roundabout was a smart move they made.
That's such a simple way of trying to write off a legitimate observation and argument. It's not going to work. Everyone will see through it. It's just not working Falvo. The league is garbage. Face it.
I never said it was a great Serie A league. Maybe it’s a Serie C or bottom half of the B. When I see 70,000 fans turn up for a game I Atlanta , 40,000 in Seattle , 15 or 16 brand new stadia, teams making a profit, superstars and World Cup winners coming in and struggling to get off the bench, I do the math and still keep coming back to it is not a bad league. No first division league on earth can boast the progress MLS has made in the last five years alone.
Lots of fans at stadium = great league from a popularity perspective. That doesn't automatically translate into quality. Falvo, do you watch Serie A regularly anymore? Can you not see the difference?
Yes I do I watch it religiously. If you go back and read what I posted , I never said it was a Serie A. Maybe Serie C or B. That doesn’t mean those leagues are bad. There are great players playing in Italy’s lower leagues but some never got the chance. Remember how I worked for Fiorentina (Florentia Viola) in the C2? I recall exactly how hard it was. Angelo DiLivio got his leg broken just months after appearing in the World Cup. They don’t have the top internationals, tv , sponsors or funds but there is nothing easy about the lower leagues.
Falvo as I've come to know you here over the years, I think you're a decent and nice guy, but you really aren't listening to anything anyone has been saying on this topic. No one is talking about easy. For the most part, the arguments you are encountering here are about skill. These old stars go to leagues like MLS to retire and collect a pay cheque. The leagues have far less skill, and are largely filled with jobbers. To make up for lack of skill, you have grit and dirt. No 35-37 year old star is going to come to MLS to get dirty. You think they've failed because the league is not bad, but they fail because it is. They fail because they're not going to risk themselves over nothing, especially not over the guarantee's they have in their contract. They come to have a really high paid vacation, and that's it. Think of the mentality you have when you're on vacation. Teams are not built properly to make use of whatever skill they have left. This is still a kick and run league. If you really do watch Serie A regularly, you should be able to immediately recognize the different in skill level and understand what almost everyone else is telling you. Serie B and Serie C are not as skilled as A, hence a quality difference. MLS even less. You see now? And no sorry, I don't remember how you worked for the Viola. You're not the only one who went to Italy to work, and I don't feel a need to name drop. Let's just stick with what the argument is. MLS is 3rd rate. Stars come here to retire and collect a pay cheque. If they don't look good at all times, it doesn't mean the league is great. Variables that are right in front of your nose, should help you see the gray area in between. Giovinco came to MLS to make $7m/year and because he is young enough to run a lot. He also wanted to be the proverbial big fish in a small pond. He never was a big fish before. He was never big. Mostly just small. He didn't want to be small anymore. He wanted to be big and also a fish, in a pond, a small pond. There's all kinds of dualities in that last sentence, it's almost poetic.
Those last 4 lines were beautiful brought tears to my eyes. Can we just focus on beating the blonde bitch that is Sweden?
Mettilo, mettilo, mettilo nel culo Il biscotto, mettilo nel culo I'll start giving my contribution by going to Ikea and stealing as many pencils as I can.
I'll explain it to Falvo in a way that maybe he'll understand. NASL was a much better league than MLS and the Cosmo's could beat any team in the world. Giorgio Chinaglia a goal scoring machine like no other at that time was never called for Italy after the 1974 World Cup. Giovinco isn't 1/4 of the player Chinaglia was. So this is ludicrous to even think especially with Balotelli still in the wilderness. If anything we should be thinking about him because he already has shown he can dominate against teams like Germany. Giovinco never did anything for Italy. He is too small for the international game where there is no space and its physically rough. If Messi has had problems internationally and he might be the best player of all time what makes people think a Juventus reject could do anything?
Are you saying we shouldn't call up anybody better than Messi ??? Because that's what you are saying !!!
The NASL was a long time ago and the game has changed. No one has to convince me as I've always retained it was much better league than MLS. Giorgio Chinaglia and George Best were the greatest players I've ever seen. Nostalgia notwithstanding, they were better than Baggio , Messi or any other players in today's game. Pelé came at an older age and also still managed to score quite a few goals. I'm sure @Falc remembers Johan Cruyff better than me but he was also one of the best players in the world. Same with Rodney Marsh, Alan Ball, Phil Parkes, Pino Wilson , Gigi Martini ,Carlos Alberto, Roberto Bettega, Gerd Mueller, Karl-Heinz Granitza, Teofilio Cubillas, Franz Beckenbauer, Johan Neeskens , Eskandarian, Eusebio and Antonio Simoes, Wim Suurbier and Wim Rijsbergen. the great Duthc manager , Guus Hiddink was almost like a player coach for my small team in San Jose and he manned the midfield like anyone in today's game. Many Yugoslavs came over as well and they were great players like Bogicevic and Steve Zungul. Then you had Stan Terlecki from Poland and Leo Cuellar and Hugo Sanchez from Mexico. All or most these were under 32 years of age when they came over and would have easily been superstars in many of Europe's top leagues had they been playing today. As far as MLS being better than the NASL, its apples and oranges as there was no comparison. The Americans are better now but then you only had 1 or 2 American born players playing back then and they were left or right backs or maybe reduced to playing goalkeeper. If you want a comparison, the Serie A today, resembles what the old NASL was like as there were and are too many foreigners playing and no domestic players. I for one think that is wrong and stupid because I think there should be a limit. Seeing Inter win the Champions League with no Italians on the field was a rotten shame in my opinion. Juventus and maybe Milan going younger are really the only top teams that are still employing Italians. I'm all for foreign players but come on already! We've always had the best GK's and defenders on earth and now? Donnarumma, Perin , Scufett are still young but they are nothing like Giovanni Cervone, Giuliano Giuliani, Luca Bucci, Walter Zenga , Angelo Peruzzi, Pagliuca and Marchegiani. Its no wonder Italy is employing foreigners to play for the gli azzurri because they can't even scrap up a squad of 23. As great as everyone makes out the EPL today, they can't even muster up great English players as there once were. Where are Gordon Banks, Peter Shilton, Dave Watson, Kevin Keegan . Dennis Tueart, Trevor Francis or my old buddy who played out west in Paul Mariner? Beckham wouldn't have been able to light a candle to those guys had he played back then. The idea of the World Cup that Jules Rimet came up with was to have a domestic league all star team playing against teams in other nations. The idea wasn't to have Italy's Strakosha , Icardi and Higuain playing against Spain's Ronaldo and Messi. Now in comparing MLS to any other league, there is no comparison because you can't. European leagues have been around over 100 years and this league has been around 20. You had 10 teams in 2004, and 22 now. The league is growing every year so there is simply no comparing. Non c’è assolutamente nessun paragone! Also, the league is played in the host summers months and teams are traveling from Vancouver to Orlando , DC to LA and NY San Jose. This doesn't happen anywhere in Europe. To think this isn't a factor in hindering players ability or form then you just don't understand the game. Of course it will affect play , style and skill. Sir Alex Ferguson and many other pundits will also tell you the same thing. Many superstars will find themselves out of their element as they can't handle the travel, being unnoticed in the public eye and playing in 90 degree heat. On the other hand, as "3rd or 4rth rate" as you want to make it, no league on earth has made the progress MLS has made in such a short amount of time and that is a fact. Most of the Serie A and B with the exception of Milan, Udinese , Roma , Lazio Inter , Juve and Toro wished they had the soccer specific stadia MLS have. Many superstars and/or players have failed but many others have done well. Henry , DiVaio , Guillermo Barros Schelotto , Robbie Keane and David Villa were older and they did well. Villa was just recalled by Spain at 35 years of age. That has to mean something and no one is looking or questioning the league but they looked at the player himself. Other unknowns in Montero, Valeri have done well and Marco Urena of Costa Rica eliminated the USA on his own by scoring two goals and he isn't even a full time starter for my Earthquakes. Many of the leagues players are going to the finals. I agree that skills and quality need to improve but that doesn't mean its as bad as many want to make it as the league has made tremendous strides under the worst cricumstances and terrible economies. Its not Serie A, EPL, Bundesliga or La Liga but very few leagues on earth are at their level. Coming back to my initial point and/or calling Giovinco or not, I personally think he is a good player and I just don't subscribe to all these theories about the league level. Even if its a lower level league, he is gaining confidence, playing weekley, scoring goals and became an MVP. That has to mean something in any league. Obviously, going back and forth on this board, won't help as its all up to Ventura but I also think he at least deserves a chance. If he tries and fails , then there won't be any argument. As someone else suggested earlier, unfortunately Italy is now in no position to experiment and they will have to do with what they got. Personally, as much as I like Andrea Belotti, Roberto Inglese, Ciro Immobile and Manolo Gabbiadini I'm not convinced they will lead Italy to the promise land. Let's just hope they qualify.
Everyone is focused on Giovinco and his skill set. In reality he just needs to be better than our existing forwards to get a call up.
He definitely does. He's the best deep-lying playmaker we have right now and he should be in. However, if Ventura is 100% sure to keep fielding a 4-2-4 or whatever formation has 2 men in the mid, then I can see the case for Jorginho not being there. He truly is one of those players that excel in one specific position and struggle in others.
He's not saying that...at all.....All he is saying is that Messi , despite being one of the best players in the world , has had problems in the international game due to his small stature. So with this rationale , comparing the fact both Messi and Giovinco are small , why should we take a chance on Giovinco who isn't even 1/100 the player Messi is? That is what he is saying. Also Giovinco wasn't good enough years ago so why should we put faith into this idea that he's somehow better now , despite being older , because he's tearing it up and gaining confidence.....in the MLS mind you ?? Why should we do this if we put it into context we have better options currently? Why should perform this Giovinco experiment during a crucial time in qualifying? Perhaps the most crucial time in WC qualifying in the last 20 years. There is not one valid reason to use him against Sweden right now ......His time with gli azzurri , despite being " short " , has come and gone. Can we all stop talking about this guy now......Please????
Yeah I was trying to make a point that even the best player has struggled for Argentina and they are a lot closer to winning the world cup than we are. Giovinco wont make a difference because he never did.
Messi hasn't made a difference for Argentina. If anything they lost 3 finals in as many years and he hasn't won anything for his national team. He scored 3 goals in their last game but they were on the verge of being eliminated until that point. Aside from this though, what is the big deal and why the huge backlash and dsidain? You guys are sounding like a crime was committed here. All this back and forth reminds me or CNN , MSNC and Fox talking about the Russia probe. I posted initially all Giovinco wants is a chance to prove himself so I don't see what the problem is with that? If they pick him ok but if not, its all up to Ventura. Again, we need to qualify at all costs and to tell the honest truth, I'm not certain Italy will regardless of who is picked.
let it go man.....you need to let this inferiority complex of the MLS stop clouding your judgment .....you know I still like you though