Semi OT German paper Bild reporting Arsenal have made an approach for Borussia Dortmund head coach Thomas Tuchel— Kaveh Solhekol (@SkyKaveh) March 19, 2017
Why would Tuchel take a drop down in quality to coach Arsenal? Not to mention the hurly-burly Premier League style that Tuchel does NOT coach.
I agree. I think it would be a bad move. Unless he just wants more money. Just mentioned it because, if it were to happen, GZ may eventually be the beneficiary of Tuchel's coaching.
When one searches for Zelalem it is striking to read time after time posters dissing him for not even making it in the VVV Venlo team. I can only say about that those people havenot got a clue about professional football. They presume someone coming from a high brand club has an automatic slot in any team not being an EPL club. Add to that Zelalem isnot one of the players chased by all the biggies in the first place. Take Heerenveen for instance. They have on loan the most wanted talent in Europe and he hardly makes it off the bench. Heerenveen played a breath taking attacking first half against Feyenoord and Odegaard wasnot part of it. Heerenveen also had a Manchester City youngster on loan, the English youth international defender Shay Facey. He only played one match against Roda. So when these youngsters hardly ever make it into the first team, how can those posters dis Zelalem for riding the bench, while being here for hardly 2 months? Ajax bought a Brasilian starlet, that was already at his young age a first team player over there. He's been here for a month and is playing in Young Ajax. So those posters really should get a grip on reality and ditch their unwarranted expectations.
That's useful context, even for those of us who watched Shay Facey on a regular basis in MLS. But it's surely also fair to speculate about what the purpose of loaning a player into such a situation might be, since one can get a half season's worth of practice time and reserve minutes anywhere.
I presume the decision makers arenot dumb, so I guess the expectation from both sides was that the loanies would be a quality injection. In the Heerenveen case it wasnot. The team most of the time with the loanies played worse. Time in the case of Odegaard (as with Zelalem) was far too short to be able to merge and build rapport with the other players, especially being young kids without years of experience to draw from. Apart from the question if there really is a quality injection to be expected into teams that are made up of players that form a well oiled machine.
The Eerste Divisie only promotes automatically the top team. It makes sense Venlo is keeping what works for them. It's not like Zelalem has impressed anyone in the few minutes he's got.
In BS posters' (and my own) defense, we are looking at GZ in the context of his past couple of seasons as well. (and, in my case, watching him on TV a good 1/2 dozen times last season.) So, taking the past 18+ months into account, GZ did fine, but nothing special on the best team in the ScotChamps. He showed very good technical skills, but did not contribute to Gers goals/attack and 2-way game as much as one might hope. (contrast that to how Emerson Hyndman, a US player at a similar place in his career is doing this year in the Scottish Prem.) Then looking at the Netherlands, Miazga, loaned from Chelski is obviously a bit older, for sure more seasoned, but has been able to grab games at a midlevel Ered team. Past US players at GZ's stage of advancement have had mixed results. Lee Ngyuen, for instance, has had good club (but not National Team) success despite never breaking into PSV's first team as a 20-22 year old, (but obviously PSV is a much stronger club than VVV.) Michael Bradley went to 'veen as a 19/20 year old and impacted quickly. Robbie Rogers went to 'veen at about the same age and did not. He did get a dozen or so Sr. caps, but never became a key player (to be fair, RR had some personal circumstances that might have affected his career somewhat at that point.) Aron Johannsson was older so it's harder to draw much comparison, but for the most part, US players who have not impacted in the Ered have not contributed a lot to the national team, which is many posters concern here. It is not impossible GZ's obvious skills will eventually translate into a very effective top level footballer, but despite some of the exceptions you note, I would bet if someone did an analysis of how Ered/Erste success/struggles as a 20 year old track eventual career success Ered/Erste success would be a pretty decent predictor. Realize, of course, that the US tends to not have a lot of kids in the Arsenal program, so expectations are very, perhaps unrealistically, high.
I understand the concern, but that would be warranted when he's still not making reasonable minutes next season. But that depends on what Arsenal decides. We, on the other hand have no expectations for our kids moving into EPL academies. When you read our comments on the kids moving over there, it is about writing them off as a future NT player. The common remark is: "Another one for the bin". So maybe copying our attitude visa EPL academies would be better for realistic expectations about a young player.
I would be more sympathetic to your position if he were "at" Ajax/PSV/'Veen or even, dare I say, Feyenoord (god help me...) and were being developed by them, loaned to VVV etc. But the reality is he is being "developed" by Arsenal and while both Rangers and Venlo are perfectly good stepping stone situations, there comes a point you expect quality to show more. I am in no way writing him off. Emo Hyndman looked like he could be a lost project last year and now he's suddenly the second coming, but it's also unrealistic to not acknowledge that GZ suggested better potential that hoping for charity minutes in the Ereste at 20 (nothing against the Dutch 1st - you know I'm a fan of Dutch soccer.) If he were impacting Venlo I'd be very happy with this move given his age, but all things being equal, it would be best if he was forced to perform in important games. Gers at least was good for that.
That's not unusual for young players, to look out of place for a time and then suddenly missing puzzle piece drops in. Years, many years ago Mike Bradley played his first season as a regular first team player at H'veen, because of injuries of other players, in the play off rounds. Against FC Twente, I wrote then, he ran around like a headless chicken. Luckily his mistakes werenot punished by Twente. He was really not ready for first team play. Then the new season started and I wrote then about him that he must have studied the dvd's of his matches to learn from his mistakes the last season, because he was suddenly far better than in the season before.
That Zelalem sucks now doesn't mean he will suck forever. He just sucks now and it's perfectly understandable that Venlo uses him sparingly.
We all wish GZ was playing more, but I'd think the biggest lesson Hyndman taught us is to be patient and focus on what he does when he plays rather than what his current coach decides to do with him. Hyndman got frozen out at Fulham and didn't play single game with anyone the first half of the season, but he generally looked better each time I saw him. Whether it be after not playing a few months at Fulham or when moving up from the u20s to u23s. I've seen the same with GZ with Arsenal youth teams and the preseason tours. Hopefully he can more mins down the stretch and we can see him in may with the u20s. The one thing that has always stood out about Hyndman is his maturity and focus for the game. I have no idea about GZ in this regard. Things could still go either way for both, but I'd still bet on oth having bright futures.
Sure, and I don't want to oversell my position here either. I think in it's most distilled form, I (and some others perhaps) feel like GZ is not playing at a level to his skill set, and that is somewhat confusing. Bradley, despite some obvious tactical naivety, adjust fairly quickly to a much better team in a more difficult league. I still think GZ has the skills to be a very good player. I'm not sure he has the mindset (not as a professional - he seems to keep his head down and get to it, but as an on-field contributor.)
Could they be using him sparingly because his competition doesn't suck? They are in first place, right? He's a half season loan player. What does it say to players playing well that they have to cede time to him?
I don't disagree that he couldn't be playing to higher level, but it is really hard to assess when he's only been with Arsenal, Arsenal u23s, and on loan at second division Dutch side that is trying to get promoted. Loans go awry for many reasons. I just think it is very hard to read into his current minutes, let alone have them be conclusive as some (not you) seem to take them to be. Actually, I just remembered that his play with our u23s was pretty uninspiring. I can't think of a much more challenging role for a young player than being a deep lying playmaker. It's a heck of lot easier to run around like Bradley did at 18 or playnout on the wing as Pulisic was allowed to do. The roles aren't comparable. I'd agree here. I have no idea what his mindset really is. I think he needs to add more aggressiveness to his game and a more attacking mindset. I liked that when I saw him with Venlo, he looked to be playing out wide. I'd also like to see him get some minutes further up the field... looking to take people on and get more shots off. Two years ago, I saw EH as a deep lying playmaker (due to his role at Fulham) and Zelalem as an amid and didn't understand why Ramos was playing them reversed at the WC. Apparently, Hyndman is more geared as an attacker and Zelalem is a metronome. The things that have stood out to me as new or pleasantly surprising about Hyndman in the last year are his toughness on the ball, forward runs, and how quick he gets his shot off. It be great if Zelalem could do something similar over the next.
On the bench: Opstelling VVV-Venlo - NAC Breda!#vvvnac pic.twitter.com/UNGi8DLx0s— VVV-Venlo (@VVVVenlo) March 31, 2017
I jumped the gun on the 2nd half but the 2-0 lead is holding now actually in 2nd half. No changes for VVV yet. NAC made one earlier.