MLS Pre-season. Red card issued to Diego Chara after Referee Stoica consults the video. Chara launched himself into RSL player and led with forearm/elbow, making contact above the shoulder. Referee changes corner kick decision to DFK and send-off. RSL scores on DFK. Incident starts at 39:00 on video. www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZKSQVjuOSw
When I went back to watch it the actual contact was just before 38:00 on the game clock (50:50 into the video).
Why was it a DFK and not a penalty? Chara leaps from within the penalty area. He lands in the penalty area. The RSL attacker had his back leg on the penalty area line and his front leg in the penalty area itself when contact was made. From the video available, I'm 99% convinced that the elbow-to-head contact was in the penalty area. I don't think this was the right call. This took about 4.5 minutes from stoppage to restart. Even when you account for 30+ seconds of that having to do with the management of the DFK, that's way too long. And the protests were relatively mild given this was a preseason game. Imagine a couple of these in a regular season match.
I watched last night and was going to comment on how long it took. I assumed it took so long because he was trying to figure out where on the field it took place. Do they have like an NFL only real-time (not slow-mo frame by frame) speed?
I believe I've seen some stadiums use DVSport, and usually there is a circular dial that allows them (the referee) to roll forward and back frame by frame.
I was in the stadium and want to speak to this. Most of the fans were confused - the gameboard didn't show the replay, it took forever, and it felt unjust (even if it was the correct decision). I tried explaining to folks why it was a complicated call, but I think more than anything VAR needs practice and the fans need to get used to it. Here's the situation based on what I saw and what I inferred. 1. There's a shot on goal. Saved and out for a corner. Stoica signals corner. 2. Stoica sees the player on the ground. He goes and checks on him. Player mimes that he got elbowed in the head. 3. (Guessing) Stoica asks VAR to check and see if there's something there. 4. Attacker takes him time to get ready to play. Stoica holds play until the attacker is ready. (NOTE: Potentially Stoica and/or the player were delaying the restart to give time for VAR to review). 5. VAR says, "hey, there's something here, you should come check it out. Stoica whistles a stop and runs over to the monitor. 6. Stoica reviews both the incident and the restart. As @MassachusettsRef suggests, perhaps this should have been a PK. My guess is that they didn't have overwhelming evidence to show this and so decided to give a DK instead. 7. Stoica calls over captains to explain, then issues the red. Has to handle the restart. What's interesting here is that I don't think VAR or Stoica saw the foul. It wasn't until the attacker was down that they took a closer look at it. (I'm basing that on watching Stoica live from the field). That alone I think added a minute of time to the stoppage.
@MassachusettsRef - would you consider making this a general VAR thread? Or move this post as you see fit. Rapids - SKC preseason, YouTube below, starts at 1:37:00ish on the video. I know they can only review during a stoppage of play, but this demonstrates a possible issue of needing quite awhile before being able to review an infraction. I also felt it took a little too long between the ball going out of play and the whistle signifying the review. The announcers did answer a question for me, though - the time between the infraction and the review gets added to injury time (makes sense). Will be fun to see the first time an infraction happens and then the ball doesn't go out of play for five minutes. Will be REALLY fun the first time an infraction happens and then the offending team scores. 86:38 - Rapids player takes free kick from outside box 86:40 - handling by SKC player, uncalled, ball is cleared 87:38 - ball goes out of play for Rapids throw-in, Rapids player picks it up, looks around to throw it in 87:48 - Chapman whistles, Rapids player stops attempt to throw ball in 88:00 - longer whistle from Chapman, heads over to VAR tent 88:56 - Chapman gives signal for PK
What is the protocol if the next stoppage had been a goal by either team? Does the goal stand or is it wiped out by the call that should have been made?
Happy to make it an MLS VAR thread if we want. Though there is now a general catch-all VAR thread on the main board. Let's leave it here for now and see what happens. This is not true. The VAR protocol document from the IFAB explicitly states play can be stopped to initiate a review. The referee is advised to stop play "as soon as it is in a 'neutral area'."
Protocols posted here, again: http://static-3eb8.kxcdn.com/documents/216/VAR_Protocol Summary_v1.0.pdf Page 7 is clear. The referee can stop dynamic play. Announcers were wrong. In this case, either the VAR didn't insist that a review was urgent, the referee determined he could wait, or one (or both) of them weren't clear on the protocols.
That makes a lot more sense. I thought (based on watching live) this VAR system wasn't going to work. Knowing the announcers had it wrong and the ref has the option to stop play makes me a lot more open to it.
Sorry, was looking quickly and must have skipped over it. I've really got to stop listening to announcers.
Uh, what happens if the next stoppage is the end of match? I guess referee could signal going to review rather than end if he/she knows in time, but imagine situation where this play happens two mins later than it did, ball gets cleared, referee blows final whistle as ball gets back to other goalkeeper -- the play is no longer reviewable and the VAR may not even have seen a replay yet to know it should have been
I have to wonder if he had an additional camera angle available that we did not see in the video. I suppose it's possible your planted leg could be on the PA line and your head still outside it.
By law too late to change anything right? At least in MLS if the VAR doesn't spot something in time the DISCO could still deal with it.
That was my thought - but doesn't that negate the argument that VARs will protect against obvious errors? What could be a bigger problem than obvious PK that would change the scoreline right at the end
One would hope that if there was something to look at the VAR would tell the R (or the R would recognize) and he would not signal the end of the game. And if there is a failure, it is really no different at all from whistling for full time without seeing that the AR has a flag up for a PK. But how often is that a real issue anyway?
David Villa slaps an opponent off the ball. This play is the poster-child VAR. The replay shows it is a send-off, and Saghafi rightly sends him. Video here: http://www.foxsports.com/soccer/sto...r-video-replay-for-slapping-a-defender-021917 Observations: 1. In real time Saghafi cautioned Villa. Replay shows that Saghafi must have been straight-up guessing, as there was nothing Villa did that could have been both seen and cautioned. 2. That monitor/mouse system is appalling. At least the tablet thing isolated the referee. Imagine a referee looking at the screen surrounded by staff from both teams. I know its preseasons, but fans, trainers, vendors, and staff are all around him. 3. Saghafi moved fast, it still took a while. Meanwhile the players are not content to just let the process play out. Good job by the SAR to enter the field and keep a lid on things, but I can't even imagine what this would be like when the players actually care. The players know the ARs don't have cards. This is on the boarder of infinite regress here, as what--are they supposed to go to the VAR to sort out misconduct that happened during a VAR review? How soon till the players figure out this obvious whole in the system? I give Espenoza or Sarvas about two weeks. 4. A player grabs Saghafi's arm to keep him from showing the red card. Villa goes after the player that provoked him after the red card. What a mess. Anyway, I'm glad Villa was punished. I wish Saghafi caught him in real time, but he didn't and that's what VAR is for. But even in this best case scenerio with an AR that was on it, it showed massive issues.