VAR in Review

Discussion in 'Referee' started by RedStar91, Nov 9, 2017.

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  1. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No it does not. For reference, there were 36 penalties given after video review in 2019 and 11 rescinded for a net change of +25. Some of those surely did not result in goals, but I don't have those particular numbers.
     
  2. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Classified more as a "non-VAR in Review," but worth watching. 6:56 on the video below:



    Makkelie was the VAR. There was no intervention; the yellow card stood without an OFR.

    The hesitation to pull SFP red cards combined with the general reluctance to say the lack of an SFP card is "clearly wrong" is going to be a lethal combination.

    The ball is 5 yards away from the player when he's tackled and moving at some pace as it has been passed already. The fouled player is facing his own goal, within his own half, in the center circle. He gets scissored from behind with no opportunity to brace for contact. And it's done with significant force.

    Everything about this screams red card. This is the the tackle that we had come pretty close to eliminating from the game. It's back. And it boggles the mind that we have an insurance policy (VAR) for dealing with it, yet we refuse to do so.

    This is going to get worse before it gets better. All we're doing now is waiting for a Mbappe or De Bruyne or Felix or Sancho or another star 20-something to get his career ruined by one of these. Because on the course we're on, it's going to happen.
     
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  3. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Holy &%&@#!

    I think this should have been caught without VAR, but OK, sometimes we don't see everything as well as we should have. But if VAR isn't going to intervene, well, just, well . . .

    (Is it just my monitor or is the GK shirt the exact color of the R's shirt?)
     
  4. Yup, I think it was this one I referred to as the KNVB calling it a mistake by ref and VAR when it was about the post match comments. Everybody, including the fouling Feyenoord player, was of the opinion it was a red.
     
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  5. Yeah, I remembered it right:
     
  6. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    10 years ago that was a multi-game suspension even in MLS.
     
  7. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  8. Ghastly Officiating

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Oct 12, 2017
    First off, ow. Second, there is much more force in the second challenge. Yes, studs to the side of the head is not going to feel good, no matter how little force. But I think that especially if you give the first red card, you have to give the second (and even without the first challenge.
     
  9. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd


    Very rare review for a DOGSO that was given yellow originally and upgraded to red in the Lazio vs Juve match (2:50 mark).

    I'm all for more reviews that upgrade yellows to reds especially for SFP, but I don't know how can say the decision to give yellow is clearly wrong. There is definitely some doubt to the obviousness of the goal scoring opportunity.
     
  10. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    I don’t see any doubt there. In a professional game, that has to be DOGSO. Every element is clearly there.
     
  11. Well, that was a funny VAR day with Vitesse-Feyenoord.
    VAR tells the ref he missed a penalty foul by the Feyenoord goalie in the first couple of minutes of the match, then he denies the Feyenoord keeper's save of it because of the infamous line infringement, to be corrected by the VAR again as a legal save.:)
     
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  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    kolabear repped this.
  13. El Rayo Californiano

    Feb 3, 2014
    Video of incidents in question:
     
  14. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If Pique was also grabbing from the front, which it looks like he might have been, then I get it.

    But my point still stands. How do you tell the world the VAR will help call one clear hold but not another. Particularly when the latter situation appeared a much better scoring opportunity.

    Clearly wrong is in the eye of the beholder. Moving that eye to a television monitor helps sometimes, but hurts at other junctures.
     
    El Rayo Californiano repped this.
  15. I saw the BuLi match of Schalke vs Eintracht.
    One can have a VAR, but if you put idiots in front of the screen you might as well have no VAR. Bas Dost was stopped in mid air going for the ball by pulling his shirt.
    It was so blatently visible that the people in front of those screens should be relegated to the amateur sections.
     
  16. Unnaturallybigger

    United States
    Jun 28, 2019
    VAR certainly has some inherent problems, and some leagues like the EPL have managed to muck up it even more. However, the biggest issue with VAR is not inherently a VAR problem. The biggest issue with VAR, and the elephant in the room, is that VAR puts a giant magnifying glass on the highly subjective nature of the LOTG (or at least law 12).

    Before VAR we could just say "well the ref blew the call". Now with VAR were thinking "WTF, how does that call not get overturned after X amount of referees review it." We are left confused and frustrated on how to reconcile the call with what we understand the "Laws" to be.

    Let's be honest, there is no mechanism for preciseness or consistency in the LOTG. In fact, its just the opposite. For example, ref's often justify calls, or non-calls, under the concept of "game management". A foul or card in the 1st half may not be a foul or a card in the second.

    Clattenburg said it himself:
    The best referees, he believes, make their decisions based on context and balance. This explains why there can never be "consistency" in the way football is refereed. It is the courage to apply the laws with empathy, says Clattenburg, that distinguishes top officials from those on the next rung on the ladder.
     
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  17. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Stolen from another ref site:

    upload_2019-12-31_13-10-50.png
     
  18. roby

    roby Member+

    SIRLOIN SALOON FC, PITTSFIELD MA
    Feb 27, 2005
    So Cal
  19. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Me too, but I wonder how much added time there will be before the bells toll!!!
     
  20. sulfur

    sulfur Member+

    Oct 22, 2007
    Ontario, Canada
    Here's one from Australia yesterday...

    Play on field is a 3v1, ball with the outside right attacker. He enters the penalty area and crosses the ball on the ground towards the two teammates to his left. Defender slides, arm above shoulder, blocks ball.

    Referee awards penalty kick, cautions defender (almost certainly for SPA).

    VAR calls down, good penalty, but recommends sending off (DOGSO).

    https://streamable.com/a4o82
     
  21. gaolin

    gaolin Member+

    Apr 21, 2019
    What happened to the rule that says you cannot be penalized if ball touches arm supporting your fall?
     
  22. sulfur

    sulfur Member+

    Oct 22, 2007
    Ontario, Canada
    Watch the clip. That arm is NOT supporting his fall, it's above and beyond his shoulder, so falls into the "making yourself bigger" part instead.
     
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  23. Thezzaruz

    Thezzaruz Member+

    Jun 20, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Sweden
    That sentence has this part though "but not extended laterally or vertically away from the body". And the arm here was both so PK is correct but I'm not sure about the DOGSO though.
     
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  24. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To give a red there IMO you need to be convinced that one of those two attackers on the left are going to get to the ball off of the attempted pass (and also that they're in an onside position, which they are just) because the player who had the ball is almost certainly not going to be regaining possession of the ball and still have an OGSO. So... at the time of the foul, did the ball have enough velocity to reach a teammate without being cut off?
     
  25. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Are we even sure the pass was on target? Seems like there’s a chance it was close to square and would have caused the attackers to pause and halt their runs. At that point, while it’s still a good goal scoring chance, the likelihood they could get challenged from a tracking defender is decent.

    Genuinely shocked this was changed due to being clearly wrong. It’s a “maybe wrong” to me but takes a lot of work to tell for sure... and that’s not supposed to be what VAR does. It also isn’t an expected intervention, which (other than off-the-ball violence) is a good barometer for whether or not VAR is working well.
     
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