VAR in Review

Discussion in 'Referee' started by RedStar91, Nov 9, 2017.

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  1. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Watch them bring in the already trained men for VAR and then we can start the mansplaning jokes for every OFR.
     
  2. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know some who I respect quite a bit disagree with me on this, but I think this is either a false controversy or a misplaced complaint.

    FIFA had a 2-year experiment and, technically, made a decision months before the WC to move forward with VR after multiple tournaments around the world and multiple workshops and seminars with potential referee candidates. And when all the dust settled, they had somewhere between 7 and 10 people they truly trusted to do VAR and that was mostly because those VARs had dozens and dozens of matches in their domestic leagues.

    If you rush VARs for the WWC, it could and probably would go comically bad. At this point, not introducing VR is better for the tournament.

    Now, if the complaint is that FIFA didn’t invest in VAR from the beginning on the women’s game and it should have dove in back in early 2017, that’s a much more reasonable argument. But at this point I think it’s really hard to switch gears. There are still big hiccups with VAR as it expands and gets fine tuned, but there were some flat out horror shows early on in the experiment. You don’t want those horror shows at the WWC where every referee except two or three would be doing their first competitive matches with VR.
     
  3. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That’s really the only option, though, if they want to do it well. There’s no time and opportunity to train the women referees on competiive matches. But it wouldn’t be a good look. FIFA has put itself in a bind.
     
  4. JeffG

    JeffG Member

    Mar 9, 2005
    MN, USA
    I must admit that bringing in the VAR refs from 2018 was my initial knee-jerk reaction. But, the optics are not good either way. While I wouldn't want to be in FIFA's shoes on this, if they could present a plan for training high-level refs for the women's game, with a commitment for VAR at the next WWC, they could get through this round only slightly bruised. On this issue, anyway. Then, we can get back to the other issues: pay equity, field surface, ...
     
  5. Cowtown Felipe

    Cowtown Felipe Member+

    Mar 12, 2012
    Fort Worth, TX
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Soccer America quoted Jill Ellis saying she didn't care about the gender of the people working VAR as long as they had VAR like the men's WC.
     
  6. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    She may truly not. Others definitely will.

    There are the immediate negative optics of men in a booth "telling" women referees what to do; some will have a field day with that. Perhaps more importantly, it opens up questions as to why the best male referees can't be on the field, too. If Cakir, for example, is the best referee in the world, why can't he referee the WWC, too, just like the world's best VARs are doing both events?

    Having male referees at the WWC is a short-term solution that has some longer lasting consequences. I don't think this is a road FIFA wants to go down. But they've put themselves in this box with a complete lack of foresight and planning.
     
  7. Mmm, is it lack of forsight or is it drive of the market to push things in faster than planned?
     
  8. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not realizing there would be complaints about gender inequality once VAR was deemed successful at the men's WC is definitely a lack of foresight. The WWC was always on the calendar for 2019, it's not like it was a surprise.

    Now, if they knew they'd get those complaints but chose not to invest in the training and development of women referees for other reasons, then it's not lack of foresight. It's just a choice.
     
  9. MrPerfectNot

    MrPerfectNot Member+

    Jul 9, 2011
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's a choice: they could / should have been investing the time and $ in the women referees to prep them for the VAR system - then if it didn't go well in 2018, they would have been able to tweak / change or even drop the program if necessary for 2019. By not doing that earlier, they've put themselves in this box - with no good solution.

    Seems FIFA has four choices:
    1. No VAR
    2. VAR w/ male refs from 2018 MWC
    3. VAR w/female refs only
    4. VAR with refs of both genders, depending on which female referees show a comfort and skill with the system and processes.

    Maybe #4 is best option? FIFA should pony up and say "we didn't prep it right for 2019 WWC", so we're taking the best referees available - and will fix it for the next iteration of this event. But I would be very surprised at any admission of fault or error.
     
  10. djmtxref

    djmtxref Member

    Apr 8, 2013
    To really be ready they would have had to get women's leagues to use VAR before now. That was part of what led to the "successful" implementation of VAR in the MWC. They already had refs with VAR experience before they started the MWC preparations.
     
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  11. MrPerfectNot

    MrPerfectNot Member+

    Jul 9, 2011
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just a dive down the rabbit hole to avoid debugging some macros: conceptually, if they tried to "rush it" into place - FIFA should contact 5 women's leagues (US, England, Sweden, Germany, France) and their national federations, asking that extraordinary permission be granted to allow FIFA referees selected for next year's WWC be allowed to work professional matches to develop VAR competence.

    But that won't happen. Too many administrative and technical hurdles to get the refs in place, stadiums equipped, etc. It would cost $$, but FIFA's got that to spare.
     
  12. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    It seems to me that the harder training is for the VAR team than the R.

    In my view, the least bad option at this point is to use VR* and have the lead VAR come from the experienced WC VARs, with the rest of the VAR team coming from the women's referee pools. That gives you experience in the booth, but not just men.

    However VAR is implemented, its going to have hiccups due to the experience issues. (Even things like delayed flags--we saw MLS ARs fighting their reflexes to delay the flags for review even late in the season.) I suspect the top half of the referee pool will adjust to the VAR without too much trouble, but it has always seemed to me that in the WWC there are more referees who are already past their comfort zone than in the MWC--and I would expect those referees to be particularly challenged by VR.

    I completely concur that FIFA made this mess. They should have seen the issue coming long ago and planned for the inevitable complaints. And if they thought that no one would expect it because the women's leagues haven't been using it, they need to crawl out from under that rock that they have been hiding under.

    Finally, I'm not even sure there is a great medium term fix for this. I'm dubious that there are many women's leagues that have the profit margins to implement VR, though I would be happy to be corrected on that. Without leagues using it, there are going to be very few women's refs who get experience with it.

    ____
    *Even though I would still rather see it abandoned. That ship, of course, has sailed.
     
  13. Cowtown Felipe

    Cowtown Felipe Member+

    Mar 12, 2012
    Fort Worth, TX
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    FIFA with foresight? Never!
     
  14. sulfur

    sulfur Member+

    Oct 22, 2007
    Ontario, Canada
    Well... it happened, and in style.

    Possible offence at one end, ball and play goes up to the other end quickly, goal scored.

    VAR decides... PK!

    https://streamable.com/orv5j

    Al Hilal - Al Hazm with Milorad Mazic (SRB) as the ref.
     
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  15. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Hmm. And did it take him so long at the video because he was saying to himself,plf, “holy $&#@, I really have to do this!”
     
    Bubba Atlanta and IASocFan repped this.
  16. In the Sunday night Dutch soccer show Studio Voetbal last season's we had the infamous part, called "elbow of the week" to highlight missed elbows by the refs.
    Since the introduction of the VAR, and the highlighted misses of the VAR's, a new part had taken over and it's (not surprised are you?) "VAR of the Week", and boy never without material to put on the screen.
    Initially the VAR in the trial period was in a van on the club's premises, but after supporters threatened the VAR for not interfering in a match the choice was made to centralize it in the KNVB premises in Zeist.
    Alas. After a few high profile misses by the VAR's the fans have found out where they are and now police protection is necesary.

    https://www.voetbalprimeur.nl/nieuw...ters-vinden-weg-naar-zeist-var-beveiligd.html
    [​IMG]


    Nijhuis komt met nieuws: supporters vinden weg naar Zeist, VAR beveiligd


    Gepubliceerd: dinsdag 25 december 2018 om 08:22

    Laatste update: dinsdag 25 december 2018 om 08:48

    De VAR wordt voor de rest van het seizoen beveiligd door politie. Scheidsrechter Bas Nijhuis weet dat een aantal supporters naar het VAR-centrum in Zeist is afgereisd, waarna er maatregelen zijn genomen.
     
  17. One of the Dutch coaches has introduced a new soccer term when he called his team a VAR-sensitive squad (ADO Den Haag-trainer Fons Groenendijk men were often on the receiving end of VAR decisions).:D

    Edit: We now also have the title of "Most VAR sensitive player", which is the player most often on the receiving end of the VAR interference.
     
  18. GoDawgsGo

    GoDawgsGo Member+

    Nov 11, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Marouane Fellaini would never hear the final whistle of a game in a league with VAR unless he sat the bench the entire time.
     
    roby and MrPerfectNot repped this.
  19. I donot know if it's a first, but we in the Eredivisie have a red card rescinded that was given by the referee after intervention by the VAR.
    https://www.vi.nl/nieuws/aanklager-onderschrijft-mea-culpa-lindhout-en-seponeert-rode-kaart
    " Ook Dick van Egmond, die later reageerde namens de scheidsrechterscommissie, vond dat de scheidsrechter van dienst zich te veel liet meeslepen door het oordeel van de VAR. 'Onterecht, want hij moet op het scherm ook zien dat het niet zo'n zware overtreding is."

    " Dick van Egmond, who later reacted on behalf of the referee committee, also found that the referee of service was too much led by the judgment of the VAR. "Undeserved, because he must also see on the screen that it is not such a serious offense."
     
  20. GoDawgsGo

    GoDawgsGo Member+

    Nov 11, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't worry, our fraud of a committee that reviews such things for MLS already did this.
     
  21. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Honestly, I don't mind nearly as much when they rescind suspensions for poor or otherwise inappropriate VAR decisions, at least in the early years. It's a new system, and there have been significant growing pains as everyone involved calibrates.

    It's when they do it to decisions that most referees will recognize as obvious because public perception doesn't agree. That really drives me nuts. Had two of those in one week this past season.
     
    JasonMa repped this.
  22. GoDawgsGo

    GoDawgsGo Member+

    Nov 11, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We're talking about rescinding SFP after a professional referee has had an extra look from multiple angles. It should not even be possible for any committee to rescind a suspension in these cases.
     
  23. Ahem, a red card is a decision by a law enforcer. Any decision is always open to appeal, no matter by how many people and how often it was looked upon at the time it was handed out. The referee isnot the only and last judge and the VAR is part of the referee team.
     

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